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BackCountry/Uphill/AT/Touring - skiing support thread for newbs!

echo_VT

Angel Diva
i agree with you @Ringrat ... i think i may not be uphill skiing with my husband at all as he's really the only person pushing to be speedier. it's really annoying but i hurry it up b/c i don't want to seem ungrateful for him taking the time out to take me. this just reinforces my adamant requirement to be in an all-women's group if i do this in the future. i don't have patience for that from strangers. but also i get it, why they're like that. my husband and i were out in very very cold temps that we had in the NE and he just moves faster than me. if he's not moving he's standing there getting cold waiting for me - something he wants to avoid. and it was really uncomfortable -4 to -2F but i'm sure if it was 20-30F it would have been fine otherwise and he could just wait there with no problem.

the two pairs of pants. okay i'm just not going to bother with the climbing pant.

thanks for the tips about peeing. i do that while hiking too, so i guess i'll do that on skis. i thought with the pants pulled down you can't split the skis apart, but i guess you shimmy them to the lower thighs (instead of the knees) to split the skis apart to pee between them? with a snowboard your feet are already split so i usually have it at the knees cuz i can't pull it down any further. haha i suppose i really need to try this out IRL and see for myself...
 

DeweySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
the hardshell pant, they recommend the triolet pant from patagonia so that will be on the order of $300 or so, not quite as much as the bibbed powslayer pant - thank goodness. okay i plan to visit Patagonia, Arcteryx and Helly Hansen to check out some gear, maybe eddie bauer as well b/c i know it will be cheaper and make this all a lot easier to swallow.
Because I have a little bit of a Patagonia problem AND live/travel near two Patagonia outlets, I actually have both of these and a pair of touring pants.

Simul pants for touring most days: https://www.patagonia.com/product/w...?dwvar_83065_color=FGE&cgid=womens-snow-pants
They are nice and stretchy and fit over my ski boots. My only complaint is lack of leg vents. Also I poke a hole in them with a crampon pretty easily. I got the version from last year or the year before that had suspenders but they literally never stay on so I don't bother.

I wear the PowSlayer bibs in a size larger for most inbounds days or if I need to layer up more for warmth on touring days. Love these. I also have the Arc'teryx Theta SV bibs from forever ago and find myself reaching for the PowSlayer more (probably cause they are a pretty blue color instead of boring black haha!)

I have the Triolet shell from a few years ago...I don't love it. I think they are from 2012 or so, before Gore-Tex technology got lighter and more pliable. These are definitely bomb proof and the full zippper is nice, but they are heavy and stiff.

Don't forget to check wornwear.com for used Patagonia stuff and I have always had luck on eBay for ski pants.
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
oh my gosh... you took my plan and dumped it on its head. haha. okay i will have to check it out. the simul pant i will definitely check out thanks for the recommendation!
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
good advice here. Unless it's a warm, sunny relatively short b/c trip, I wear my helmet. I have hard shells with side zips -- very handy for air conditioning when uphill hike heats me up. Layers---uphill I sweat, but need warmth the minute I stop. two sets of gloves---or liners---uphill and then shells or warmer gloves for downhill. I also like my adjustable poles for different slope angles.

Just a note about the beacon. Having a colleague/friend who nearly died in a backcountry accident----long story----but in a slide and hard stop on a rock, blunt force trauma to her liver was caused by her beacon! stage 4 laceration (helicopter, ICU, etc.) Lately, I've noticed that ski patrol and others are wearing their beacons in a cargo pocket on their pants. Not only is it more accessible than in a harness under all of your layers---the chance of blunt force trauma is less in a catastrophic fall. Just a weird aside.
 

Ringrat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
There is lots of debate about the harness vs. pocket location of a transceiver. I'm not going to weigh in, other than a couple of very important notes:
- your beacon should never be exposed when you're in avalanche terrain. It should always be under at least one layer of fabric. That means that if you're wearing it in its harness over your baselayer, you always have to be wearing a second layer. If it's in a pocket, make sure that pocket is zipped.
- If you choose to carry it in a pocket, that pocket must have a few requirements: it must have a clip in it to attach your transceiver's cord to. It shouldn't be a cargo pocket that sticks out of the pants (good way to have your pocket with the beacon get ripped off). And it is preferable if it's a sewn-in pocket, not a laminated-on pocket, which are quite common.

Keep in mind what other electronics you might have on you, too. Your transceiver manual should tell you the manufacturer's recommended minimum distance between your transceiver and electronics. For mine, it's 20cm in transmit and 50cm in search. So, if you want to carry a camera in your jacket pocket, it's probably too close to where your transceiver will sit on your body. When I'm on a SAR call, I always have a phone and radio, and often an inReach or sat phone (or both). Trying to find a place for all of those things and my transceiver can be...challenging!
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Important question - how do you pee while keeping your skis on? I'm actually a little concerned about finding a place to pee if I end up on an exposed slope with all men around during my class...

You pee the same way you would in the woods on a hike --> drop trou all the way down to ankles and crouch. As far as exposure goes...I've never backcountry skied anywhere that was completely treeless. It's like hiking.

The reason you don't want to take off your skis is that if you are post holing to your knees or higher, you are hardly crouching at all and there is no space to pull your pants down. Also, it is very difficult to get into skis that are a foot higher than you if you have post holed.

thanks for the tips about peeing. i do that while hiking too, so i guess i'll do that on skis. i thought with the pants pulled down you can't split the skis apart, but i guess you shimmy them to the lower thighs (instead of the knees) to split the skis apart to pee between them? with a snowboard your feet are already split so i usually have it at the knees cuz i can't pull it down any further. haha i suppose i really need to try this out IRL and see for myself...

I think you're overthinking it. It'll make sense in practice. :smile:
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
i went to visit the Patagonia and Arcteryx stores here in NYC - and altho i liked the PowSlayer pant, i really liked the Shashka pant so much better, it just seems so much more advanced in tech - i didn't get to try to the Theta SV pant but i ended up ordering it. b/c i figure i might need the severe weather at some point i thought i should go for it. if i don't like it tho, i'll send it back and get the Shashka pant.

i also ended up getting my medium layer again - the one that i lost. the LT Atom Hoody. the thing is bombproof, i've nicked it with my bike more times than i can count, and it looked brand spanking new. no pulls, nothing. such an amazing piece.
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
really helpful again - thanks again for all the thoughts
@dloveski sorry about your acquaintance, but good to know. i'll look at placing my beacon elsewhere. And @Ringrat i heard that about having electronics far from your beacon, i think it's 50 cm? i will have to check out my particular beacon and work the logistics out.

@Pequenita i do tend to overthink it, haha this is another example of that. thanks for assuring that it will make sense in practice :smile:
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
There is lots of debate about the harness vs. pocket location of a transceiver. I'm not going to weigh in, other than a couple of very important notes:
- your beacon should never be exposed when you're in avalanche terrain. It should always be under at least one layer of fabric. That means that if you're wearing it in its harness over your baselayer, you always have to be wearing a second layer. If it's in a pocket, make sure that pocket is zipped.
- If you choose to carry it in a pocket, that pocket must have a few requirements: it must have a clip in it to attach your transceiver's cord to. It shouldn't be a cargo pocket that sticks out of the pants (good way to have your pocket with the beacon get ripped off). And it is preferable if it's a sewn-in pocket, not a laminated-on pocket, which are quite common.

Keep in mind what other electronics you might have on you, too. Your transceiver manual should tell you the manufacturer's recommended minimum distance between your transceiver and electronics. For mine, it's 20cm in transmit and 50cm in search. So, if you want to carry a camera in your jacket pocket, it's probably too close to where your transceiver will sit on your body. When I'm on a SAR call, I always have a phone and radio, and often an inReach or sat phone (or both). Trying to find a place for all of those things and my transceiver can be...challenging!
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire

Good advice. Just to clarify---I did not suggest a simple cargo pocket for beacon---the patrol I've seen have a special pocket for the beacon---I think these compartments are padded, leashed, and secured. And for duffers like me who aren't mountaineering, the harness will continue to be fine, but I might place the beacon on the left instead of the right over the liver.
 

DeweySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
i went to visit the Patagonia and Arcteryx stores here in NYC - and altho i liked the PowSlayer pant, i really liked the Shashka pant so much better, it just seems so much more advanced in tech - i didn't get to try to the Theta SV pant but i ended up ordering it. b/c i figure i might need the severe weather at some point i thought i should go for it. if i don't like it tho, i'll send it back and get the Shashka pant.

i also ended up getting my medium layer again - the one that i lost. the LT Atom Hoody. the thing is bombproof, i've nicked it with my bike more times than i can count, and it looked brand spanking new. no pulls, nothing. such an amazing piece.
Well this thread is quickly becoming a SOML. I got the Atom LT jacket on poshmark about a month ago and took it out for its first BC tour this last weekend. The weird this is...IT WON'T STAY ZIPPED UP. WTF? Like one slight arm movement and the zipper goes down. I have never had this problem before on a jacket.

So cut to the big fall and slide for life mentioned in a previous post-- I fall, my jacket comes unzipped, and someone along the way I lost my beacon that was strapped to my chest. Was so out of sorts that I didn't even notice my beacon was gone till we were back at the car. Thanks @Ringrat for all the reminders! Like duh, there are so many things you know you are supposed to do, like make sure your beacon is secure and not exposed, and yet you still make mistakes. (I am strong believer in continuing education/refresher courses for this very reason)

So, I am in the market for a new Beacon! Anyone have any favorites? My last one was the dead-simple and easy-to-use single burial BCA Tracker. Maybe it's time to upgrade to multi-burial?
 

skiwest

Certified Ski Diva
Well this thread is quickly becoming a SOML. I got the Atom LT jacket on poshmark about a month ago and took it out for its first BC tour this last weekend. The weird this is...IT WON'T STAY ZIPPED UP. WTF? Like one slight arm movement and the zipper goes down. I have never had this problem before on a jacket.

So cut to the big fall and slide for life mentioned in a previous post-- I fall, my jacket comes unzipped, and someone along the way I lost my beacon that was strapped to my chest. Was so out of sorts that I didn't even notice my beacon was gone till we were back at the car. Thanks @Ringrat for all the reminders! Like duh, there are so many things you know you are supposed to do, like make sure your beacon is secure and not exposed, and yet you still make mistakes. (I am strong believer in continuing education/refresher courses for this very reason)

So, I am in the market for a new Beacon! Anyone have any favorites? My last one was the dead-simple and easy-to-use single burial BCA Tracker. Maybe it's time to upgrade to multi-burial?

Sorry you lost your beacon! Would also appreciate some beacon recommendations since I'll be in the market for one if all goes well in AIARE I this weekend (I'll post a recap if anyone is interested).
 

MrsPlow

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Same here - Mammut Barryvox Pulse, at the moment just set in basic mode. There were some good deals on it last year because they've just released a new version. We went for that one because it was consistently well reviewed.
 

Ringrat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I also have a Barryvox Pulse. My SAR team had to replace all of our transceivers this year and went with the Barryvox S (we had Pulse's before our building caught on fire). The best transceiver is the one you practice with! If you can get your hands on a few in-store and play with them, you may have a preference in terms of the interface or the size/shape.

The recommendation now is to get a three-antenna digital beacon, which would not be the Tracker. Also, all of the avalanche professionals I know universally detest the Tracker 2 and don't recommend it. People seem to either love the Tracker 3 or tolerate it, but no one seems to hate it. I haven't heard much about others. Most of the people I interact with are Mammut users, so we may be a biased group.
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
i just googled SOML - story of my life - @DeweySki omg that sounds like a nightmare experience. i can't believe the LT atom hoody failed you so badly. but i know what you mean, mine also came unzipped really easily. the new one i just got stays zipped tho, as long as you zip it to the top.

@skiwest yes i'd be interested.

wow looks like the mammut barryvox pulse is really popular - i am not sure what i have but will come back and post when i do.
 

TeleChica

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Great advice here! A few other thoughts on BC skiing. Note that I ski in the East, and rarely above treeline, so my tips are more about staying warm and comfortable. We teach a backcountry workshop every year (with dlove's brother, as a matter of fact--he's a good friend of mine). I have Avi 1, but little experience, so I can't offer anything there.

dlove's comment about gloves is spot on. You will get warm on the up, and the idea is to stay as dry as reasonable. I wear a pair of wool liner gloves for the up, then my heavy gloves for the descent. I like Hestra's with the trigger finger--warmth of a mitten with the dexterity of gloves. If it's windy during the climb, I typically also have a pair of softshell gloves by OR that I love--they block the wind but keep your hand reasonably warm. So I tend to carry 3 pairs of gloves--sometimes 4 (2 pairs of liners in case one gets soaked, they weigh nothing). I also carry an extremely warm down jacket that I use during transitions and then keep for emergencies only. It packs into a small pillow size, and fits just fine into my pack. For the weight and warmth, it beats synthetic. I use synthetic (the Atom LT jacket and a hardshell) to ski in. I tend to strip down to my base layer or my base layer with a light microfleece for the up. If it's windy I just put on my hardshell with pit zips open for venting. You want to be just comfortable--if you are really hot on the climb take off layers and open zips.

It's a good idea to carry snacks you can nibble on you, rather than in your pack. You may need energy during your climb, and it's better to have easy access then to stop the whole group and undo your pack. For example, I'll keep a Cliff bar or two in inside pocket and when I think I'll want to eat it I stick it inside my bra to warm/soften it up. Works like a charm.

I have never been able to get water not to freeze in winter using a hydration pack, so I only use water bottles. We've also had them fail and completely soak a pack before, so I go with the safer option. You can either use wool socks to keep them from freezing (if you do this, keep the bottles upside down so the ice forms on the bottom, rather than at the lid), or better yet, insulation sleeves. I keep a bottle in an insulation sleeve afixed to the belt of my pack for easy access during the climb, and put it in my backpack during the descent.

Even if the group is moving fast, BE SURE you eat and drink regularly. Your body needs both fuel and fluid to keep you from becoming hypothermic. It will also keep you warmer. If you notice your extremities getting cold, try eating AND drinking something. And add a layer. When your core starts to get cold, the first thing that you'll notice are cold feet and hands.

Re: transitions, I never carry cheater skins--they blow away and take more time to put back on. @Pequenita's suggestion to fold them in 4ths as you remove them is a good one--also MUCH easier to separate. My process:

Once at the top, pee if needed. If top is exposed, try to pee in trees or protected area just before the top.
Take off pack, put on down jacket.
Remove skin from ski. If you are on a slight hill, punch poles into the snow below the downhill ski. Then remove skin from uphill ski first. Then the other ski/skin. Place skins in pack.
Tighten boots (I leave them loose for the up); check to make sure my boots are properly connected to my skis. I know people who have lost a ski for this reason and had to recover it in summer. :smile:
Put liner gloves in inside pockets (if you can--to keep them from freezing), remove down jacket, put on all my gear for the down, including helmet (always ski with one). Check to make sure all vents are closed. It sucks to fall when your pant vents are open. Ask me how I know.
Tighten straps on pack, make sure nothing is hanging off. Put on pack.
Ski!

I would practice transitions at home--heck you could do it standing in your living room. Also definitely practice kickturns. A kickturn gone bad can be scary.

Sorry, this is all probably more than you need, but it was fun to write. I haven't been BC skiing and I am chomping at the bit. Can you tell? :smile:

Enjoy--you will learn a lot!
 

DeweySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I also have a Barryvox Pulse. My SAR team had to replace all of our transceivers this year and went with the Barryvox S (we had Pulse's before our building caught on fire). The best transceiver is the one you practice with! If you can get your hands on a few in-store and play with them, you may have a preference in terms of the interface or the size/shape.

The recommendation now is to get a three-antenna digital beacon, which would not be the Tracker. Also, all of the avalanche professionals I know universally detest the Tracker 2 and don't recommend it. People seem to either love the Tracker 3 or tolerate it, but no one seems to hate it. I haven't heard much about others. Most of the people I interact with are Mammut users, so we may be a biased group.
My partner has some kind of Barryvox so I can play around with his. IIRC, the cat operation in BC I went to last year had us use these as well. Seems to be a favorite.

Sorry to hear about your building catching fire! There must be a story there... :smile:
 

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