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Avalanche reports don't sound good

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Angel Diva
Reports of avalanche's in bounds at JH sound critical and scary.
Any Divas from JH, please check in.

Scary season of heavy snow fall. Stay safe out there.

Reports on TGR
 

alta_gal83

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
OMG ... WHAT IS GOING ON THIS YEAR?!?!?

I've been skiing with my beacon at all times since the Snowbird slide two weeks ago ... I'm starting to get scared about all of this.

Jackson Divas, I hope everyone is accounted for.
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ugh. Not good. My thoughts and prayers are with those involved. Divas please do check in.
 

alta_gal83

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
On a related note, Alta still has yet to open a lot of areas due to avy danger. Patrol was shooting the Backside from HELICOPTERS today, just showing that they didn't even want patrol back there.

Dangerous stuff this year ladies.
 

oragejuice

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The snowpack is strange this year, we got a whole lot of snow, really freakin fast, and it's a very very dangerous thing. Bend is getting some rain, which is actually awesome, its going to pack everything down, and the Bachelor patrollers have started blasting on the summit, so we can ski that soon, but I've been staying faarrrr away from all the AT stuff, it's just not safe right now at all!
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well, I just read that Loveland Pass here is closed due to an avy there. Fortunately no vehicles caught. Additionally a snowmobiler triggered an avy in the Vail Pass area earlier today but escaped unscathed.
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Something I read the other day described the situation this year as "plywood on top of ball bearings."
 

oragejuice

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That's an awesome analogy!
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Angel Diva
News report confirms one death.

https://www.jacksonholenews.com/article.php?art_id=4064

As Que stated on EpicSki, they found him in less than 10 min because he was wearing a beacon, but it seems that it was trauma that was critical.
Impressive work from the safety crews, but still a sad ending.

If you have a beacon, wear one, especially considering this scary snow.
 

whitewater girl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't live in avalanche-country (I know, famous last words), but...

...was wondering - when should one start being...concerned? cautious?...either here or when traveling?

not looking for a course in avalanche safety here, rather when to genuinely start thinking about it...

Thanks...
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't live in avalanche-country (I know, famous last words), but...

...was wondering - when should one start being...concerned? cautious?...either here or when traveling?

not looking for a course in avalanche safety here, rather when to genuinely start thinking about it...

Thanks...

The short answer (there really is no short answer) is after a big storm that dumps a foot or more of snow, with a lot of wind. SLopes usually have to be at least 30 degrees, but not always. And the very cold temps have prohibited any melting and refreezing, which helps the snow layers bond.

As I understand it, one reason this is so bad right now is due to a thin frozen layer (rain crust) at the bottom of all this. The snow hasn't had a chance to bond, and the layers are unstable.

Usually you really don't have to worry about it, if you stay inbounds. (In the US, at least; the Alps are a different story) This is a very unusual situation.
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
On a related note, Alta still has yet to open a lot of areas due to avy danger. Patrol was shooting the Backside from HELICOPTERS today,...

My brother gets to do this down in SW Colorado on occasion (he works for CDOT via the CO Avalanche Info Center) -- I know it's serious business, but how fun is that??

He sent us some amazing photos of Red Mountain Pass taken from the heli last season. This year is shaping up similarly....
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
I don't live in avalanche-country (I know, famous last words), but...

...was wondering - when should one start being...concerned? cautious?...either here or when traveling?

not looking for a course in avalanche safety here, rather when to genuinely start thinking about it...

Thanks...

Honestly - a full avalanche safety course would not likely do you that much good in-bounds. Because one of the primary things about safe backcountry travel is that you go in a group and only ski one at a time from safe zone to safe zone. You don't ski above or below other groups so you won't cause a slide or be in the slide path of another group. That just isn't going to happen at a resort where there are people everywhere.

You could definitely do some reading about what to do in an avalanche and what terrain it is typically triggered on and try to avoid those specific terrain features. BUT the biggest part of avalanche safety is in the snowpack analysis. All these inbounds avalanches are being triggered by a weak layer several feet under the snow - apparently in Jackson - about 8 feet under the snow. In the backcountry you'd dig a pit into the snow to take a look at it and see how it's holding up on the aspect you want to ski. The patrol does this inbounds, but honestly it's not a totally exact science - the snowpack is not always perfectly consistent across a slope - and it's not like you can dig it all up to see what's going on underneath.

It's still very rare for this kind of thing to happen inbounds, but the crazy snowpack is making it an exceptionally bad year. And ski patrols are obviously being more and more cautious. Alta had Mambo closed yesterday - normally if they are unsure of Baldy chutes and Ballroom they keep Main street closed, but the closed the top of a second groomer just in case. And while they opened Supreme, they kept the Bowl and most everything off piste closed and there were more patroller ski cuts through there than I have ever seen. They're being extremely cautious.

I will say that if you own an avalanche beacon, I would recommend wearing it if you're skiing out West this year, particularly during or after a storm. It doesn't cost you anything to wear it and will absolutely help in recovery. Unfortunately it looks like the victim at Jackson died due to trauma, but compare the 10 minutes it took to find him under 8 feet of snow (that's exceptionally good work by the patrol when it's that deep) versus an hour for the Snowbird incident where the victim was not wearing a beacon. You don't have long to survive under the snow - most victims die of asphyxiation. Once the snow stops moving it sets up like concrete. While there is oxygen available in the snow, you start building up carbon monoxide because the air does not circulate. Or you end up with an "ice mask" because of the warmth of your breath. Or your airway may be jammed full of snow from the slide itself. So time to rescue is critical. (And wearing an Avalung on big days isn't a bad idea either if you have one... I don't have one but have been considering it.)

Also - the standard advice is that if you are caught in a slide, that you try to "swim" to stay on top of it. As it slows down, attempt to put your hands over your face to create an air pocket. Of course, they also say that it's such a violent event that you may not be able to do anything, but that's what you should try to do.

Skiing with a partner is also an excellent idea even inbounds - just don't ski right next to them or you'd both likely be caught. Generally the patrol is always keeping their eye out for avalanches and would send help fast, but things like tree wells can also be a danger - so it's always best if someone knows where you were skiing and can get help if you don't come out when you're supposed to.

Normally, for backcountry skiing, the emphasis is sound decision making and then on beacon drills and practice with your touring partners. For inbounds I would say it's a little different since you have the patrol there and are not going to be following backcountry travel procedures, but you can increase your odds if you learn to spot avalanche paths, terrain traps and safe zones (in terms of if you saw a slide start above you - where would you go?) and wear a beacon, or at least RECCO stuff (which comes in a lot of boots and jackets these days).

For learning I would recommend Bruce Trempers book "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain". It's obviously focused on backcountry, but will definitely help you understand how it happens.
 

SkiNurse

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
From the Jackson Hole email this am:
December 29, 2008
From Jerry Blann, President JHMR

On Saturday, December 27, an avalanche at JHMR claimed the life of one of our guests.

On behalf of the entire JHMR staff we extend our deepest sympathies to the victim's family and friends. The search for the victim involved JHMR Ski Patrol and other resort staff, I would also like to extend my thanks to all of these individuals for the professionalism displayed throughout.

As a daily snow report recipient you know these usually contain summary snow amounts, links, events and information that speaks to the Snow Reporters personal experiences at the Resort. This report is not intended to convey backcountry or technical snow information as this is provided by the BTNF Avalanche Forecast center at www.jhavalanche.org. However given the nature of the recent weather cycle, we would like to take this opportunity to communicate some messages we feel are relevant.

JHMR is unique because of the variety of terrain we have. We know and communicate about the inherent risks of skiing and snowboarding on a daily basis, especially with large amounts of snow in a short period of time. However, it is important to characterize the avalanche hazard conditions we are currently experiencing as something that may continue to exist at the resort despite the efforts of avalanche reduction work. You can lower your risks at this time by wearing a transceiver, using the buddy system, paying attention or staying out of expert terrain.

The JHMR Ski Patrol is one of the most veteran and skilled teams in North America. Our guests' and employees' safety is our No. 1 priority and every precaution has been and will be taken to minimize the risks while skiing and snowboarding at Jackson Hole.

We hope you have an enjoyable and safe new year. Our best wishes on behalf of everyone at JHMR
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Per Altagirl's mention of Avalung, my son and I were discussing these yesterday. I would like him to have one and was wondering if someone could suggest where to purchase in Denver area.
 

SkiNurse

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
He can check Alpenglow or Bent Gate in Golden. Also, Neptune Moutaineering in Boulder.

Those are THE mountaineering stores (from what I've been told) in the Denver area.
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
On Saturday, December 27, an avalanche at JHMR claimed the life of one of our guests...

God, this is what? 4 in-bounds deaths this season, and it's not even January? Unreal.

Is this going to be an issue all season, or can the lower layer become more stable? Once it slides, will it be as dangerous once it gets loaded up again?

I actually have "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" and keep trying to read it, but that's the kind of thing that's really hard to digest without getting any hands-on experience to go along with it.
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
He can check Alpenglow or Bent Gate in Golden. Also, Neptune Moutaineering in Boulder.

Those are THE mountaineering stores (from what I've been told) in the Denver area.
Thanks, SkiNurse. Just sent him a text. (He probably had an idea of where to go, but I just wanted to give him the extra push. Dang, I'll even pay for the thing....so I can sleep.)
 

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