Are we overtightening our boots???

[MaineSkiLady]

The whole recent awful story in re nm's frostbite debacle has had me deep in thought about how tight we are trying to get boots. What's the fine line between a good, snug fit and too tight? It's a pretty teeny one for most of us. It just made me heartsick to read that one of us has had such serious repercussions from the whole good-fit attempt.

And I think we're overthinking/overanalyzing the boot fit thing a bit. Okay, no slop or lateral movement inside the boots, but when is tight TOO tight? None of us - okay, okay, with the exception of volklgirl ) is a racer - and those are the people who crank 'em down so hard, it hurts to watch. And the first thing they do after the race is unbuckle.

DH here is a flat-out fine skier, and he skis in slop boots. I can't believe it. The shells must be a size too big. I've tried on his boots, and they are too big for me, because (I'm asking for it here....) my feet are bigger than his. One of the drills he had to do once as an instructor, in a clinic, is ski a run with buckles undone. ( ) The purpose was to teach them that the boots are not 100% of the equation.

With pretty deformed feet here, I've certainly had my share of boot issues over 3 decades. But I never, never crank 'em down anymore. I guess my personal definition of a good fit that isn't too restricting is if I'm able to stay in the boots all day, walking etc., in the lodge, etc., without needing to unbuckle at all, much less remove due to discomfort (cold is another story, sometimes removal is the only answer to that).

Did anyone else get as affected as I am by the latest news on this site? It really rocked my skiing world.

 

[ISki]

Yes. And I agree with you.

I wince at buying small boots and packing out the liner to perfection. I cannot bear tight boots. I get the theory, that the liner will pack out resulting in a form fitting boot, but I ignore it and buy comfortable boots that fit in the store. I can deal with a little slop down the road. A form fitting boot is not necessary.

 

[altagirl]

I have a zero finger fit on my boots, but can still wiggle my toes fine and ski with them just snugly buckled, not tight. I often ski a run here and there with them completely unbuckled and usually don't notice until the bottom of the run when I go to unbuckle them and realize they're already unbuckled.

If you're really having to crank them down, they probably don't fit right.

 

[Robyn]

Yes. And I agree with you.

I wince at buying small boots and packing out the liner to perfection. I cannot bear tight boots. I get the theory, that the liner will pack out resulting in a form fitting boot, but I ignore it and buy comfortable boots that fit in the store. I can deal with a little slop down the road. A form fitting boot is not necessary.

I think that slop is more dangerous actually. I caused myself weeks of ankle pain from trying to ski powder in boots that had slop. I bought new ones a week later but still have days when the ankle hurts.

But, I agree, we don't need to crank down on our boots. I finally had a spot in my new boots blown out because it was causing pain.

 

[SueNJ]

I have no tolerance for foot pain, and I get claustrophobic if I can't wiggle my toes freely in my boots (I even have to make sure my socks don't get pulled too tight against my toes when I pull my boots on). My boots are tight enough that I have to unbuckle them after the first few runs to let the blood flow, but once the boot liners are warmed up, they're comfy enough that I forget to unbuckle them, sometimes even when I go into the lodge to have lunch. I probably could go for slightly snugger boots, especially in the instep area, but I just can't stand the feeling.

So, until I feel that the fit of my boots is impeding my progress with skiing, I'll keep them as they are. I never have problems with numbness, because in my experience, the numbness is usually preceded by burning and pain, which I can't stand, so I never let it get to that point. If my feet start to get too cold, I take a break in the lodge to warm them up.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I think that slop is more dangerous actually.

Agreed. Nothing can cause a crash faster than your foot commanding your boot to respond and no response...but this tight to the point of impeding circulation, along with the added cold temps, is starting to royally scare me. I'm currently doing the "which buckle" thing on some newer ones, always the same dang foot and boot that require more adjusting. Man, after reading the story, my buckles stay looser. In fact, I was so busy "playing dodgeball" yesterday, that I forgot all about it and merely concentrated on not getting killed --- was pretty much like your 36 hours at Keystone, Robyn -- except we managed to finally find some peace and quiet on a scraped off bump run.

 

[pinto]

I don't even buckle the instep buckle, because that is the one that will cause the problem. There is a big artery on top of your foot that gets cut off when you clamp down that buckle.

If the boot is too loose, you will have to clamp down that buckle to keep your foot from moving. So the looser the boot is, the tighter you have to buckle it.

If the boot fits correctly, the lower two buckles do NOT need to be tight.

I think, from NannyMin's story, it wasn't that she was in properly fitting snug boots ... she was right in the middle of adjustments, not skiing the finished product. Perfectly understandable under the time constraints of ESA.

 

[retromaven]

I have no tolerance for foot pain, and I get claustrophobic if I can't wiggle my toes freely in my boots (I even have to make sure my socks don't get pulled too tight against my toes when I pull my boots on). My boots are tight enough that I have to unbuckle them after the first few runs to let the blood flow, but once the boot liners are warmed up, they're comfy enough that I forget to unbuckle them, sometimes even when I go into the lodge to have lunch. I probably could go for slightly snugger boots, especially in the instep area, but I just can't stand the feeling.

So, until I feel that the fit of my boots is impeding my progress with skiing, I'll keep them as they are.

I agree with ya Ms. Sue. Especially since I have such terrible RA in my feet, having the boots cranked down until they are claustrophobic makes me unable to ski and I get hot spots due to my joints/nerves. I also hear Pinto, about the artery in your foot. I made an adjustment on the slopes last week, as my boots are starting to pack out a bit and needed to be tightened. Unfortunately I did a hasty one during the ladies clinic, made on the top of the mountain, and I cranked it down waaaaaay too hard over "that" artery in my feet, and I had such severe numbness and calf pain (from circulation/nerve issue) I was nearly doubled over after 4 or 5 runs and couldn't feel my feet, which had never happened before and I have had little problems with my boot this season, other than that one time of overtightening.

Since then, I adjusted the buckle over the arch from the straight position to the angled adjustment position (allen wrench) so I can crank down a bit more, but it's still only on the second notch. The boots just started to pack out so I needed a bit more snugness, but the buckle doesn't bear down on that artery now, therefore I regained the fit, but lost the pain...and my boots felt like new, and skiing was GOLDEN all day today, no pain, no issues, no slop. Hand up in the air waving like mad in affirmation...IMHO, yep, sometimes I think we constrict our feet during rec skiing (even aggressive/advanced rec skiing) more than we need to and it actually impedes our skiing more than improves it. To each their own, but I'm with the "no slop", but I can wiggle my toes and don't bind down arteries and cause numbness, frostbite or massive pain. I'm too old and my feet are too gnarly to be a masochist...and cold, numb, painful, crampy feet don't make me ski better!

 

[Jilly]

My new boots fit like new shoes. Snug, but not tight. They definately are not bedroom slippers. There is no lateral or front to back movement. I can wiggle my toes, but not curl them under (like I'm trying to hold onto something in the steeps!). There was too much more in the toe box vertically, but it's been padded. The only problem I have so far is that the boots are too warm, my feet sweat, then cool to become damp, then freeze!! Today was better as it was warmer and I tried the wool-silk mix socks.

 

[volklgirl]

Unless I'm actually racing, my buckles are on the first notch of their adjustment - as loose as I can get them while still remaining buckled during skiing. My boots fit well enough all over that buckling tighter than that is unnecessary. In fact, the only reason I even buckle the instep one is to prevent snow from getting under the overlap and melting down into the boot. I had to have significant grinding done to the toe box of my boots to allow me to freely wiggle my toes....I just freak if my toes are held down .

 

[SuperMoe]

curling toes?

I'm curious, because I noticed this last time out, i curled my toes in my boots. It's something I've noticed...all my VB/BB shoes have toe marks, worn out spots from toe curling. I think I have it a little in my XC boots. So...is curling toes really bad when you DH?

:ROTF: Laugh all you want, that comment made me curious now...plus, I see I get a prize if I get to 10 posts.

 

[Jilly]

I curl my toes when skiing as a reaction to stress - steeps, bumps,I don't like etc. So its a reaction to fear that I don't want to show!! I constantly have to remind myself to relax, uncurl those toes and ski the d#@n thing!!
(It's 5 posts and its the DOD section!)

 

[volklgirl]

I do the claw thing when I'm stressed too. Whenever my form goes to pot that's the first thing I check. I have to remind myself to press down with my toes.

 

[abc]

After nearly an hour of ESA, my instructor asked me why I ski with my boots un-buckled. I was shocked. It wasn't intentional. I just forgot to buckle them. And the difference is so small that I hadn't noticed it.

I agree the instep buckle does very little, provided the boot fits well to start with.

 

[liquidfeet]

Well, I'm the odd one in this bunch. I clamp them down. I just can't stand having a ski wobble because my boot is wobbling around my foot. I don't like telling my ski to tilt by tilting my foot, but my foot moves into a pocket of air inside the boot and so the boot and the ski won't tilt. I hate when I want to pressure the tips, so I lean forward and press down with the front of my foot, but then my heel rises because there's air in there, so the boot and the ski do not respond. I want immediate response and total control.

I suppose when I become a better and more experienced skier I'll be able to make the skis do what I want without having the air all gone inside my boots. Is that what most of you are doing when you ski with buckles undone, or with roomy boots? From where I am right now, I just don't know how to make my skis behave when my boots are loose. I am jealous!

That said, when I tighten them up now (these are new boots), there is going to be air in there unless I tighten them up hard. So I do. I've concluded it's my bootfitter's problem to get rid of the hot spots where my foot sticks out and presses against the liner when I crank them down. It's my job to figure out exactly where these spots are so I can tell him, and deal with the discomfort until he succeeds by compressing the liner, grinding the shell, or punching it out. So until the happy moment comes when all the hot spots are fixed, I'll crank them down, then loosen them, crank them, loosen them. It's a pain, in more ways than one. :mad:

 

[pinto]

Well, I'm the odd one in this bunch. I clamp them down. I just can't stand having a ski wobble because my boot is wobbling around my foot. I don't like telling my ski to tilt by tilting my foot, but my foot moves into a pocket of air inside the boot and so the boot and the ski won't tilt. I hate when I want to pressure the tips, so I lean forward and press down with the front of my foot, but then my heel rises because there's air in there, so the boot and the ski do not respond. I want immediate response and total control.

I suppose when I become a better and more experienced skier I'll be able to make the skis do what I want without having the air all gone inside my boots. Is that what most of you are doing when you ski with buckles undone, or with roomy boots? From where I am right now, I just don't know how to make my skis behave when my boots are loose. I am jealous!

That said, when I tighten them up now (these are new boots), there is going to be air in there unless I tighten them up hard. So I do. I've concluded it's my bootfitter's problem to get rid of the hot spots where my foot sticks out and presses against the liner when I crank them down. It's my job to figure out exactly where these spots are so I can tell him, and deal with the discomfort until he succeeds by compressing the liner, grinding the shell, or punching it out. So until the happy moment comes when all the hot spots are fixed, I'll crank them down, then loosen them, crank them, loosen them. It's a pain, in more ways than one. :mad:

Sounds to me like your boots don't fit? Seriously, when I tip my foot, there is no room at all in my boot for my foot to move without moving the boot. Even when completely unbuckled. The main reason I buckle the first two buckles (the ones over the feet) is to keep snow out.

Now, tightening the buckles will certainly give better response, that is true. But I don't think you're supposed to be able to "wobble" your foot inside a properly fitting boot. Pockets of air inside the boot?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

 

[Kiragirl]

I like very snug when skiing, but most often unbuckle at the bottom, and have had people say they don't fit right if you need to do that. It works for me but feel stupid at the top when I need to take that extra minute to buckle-up. I used to buckle 1, 3, 2, 1 (ankle to tow buckles) but now am doing 1, 2, 2, 1. Sometimes go back to the third buckle at the ankle on steeper stuff. Sometimes my right foot feels tight, I think I'll have the liner looked at/shaved a bit.

 

[Pequenita]

I'm re-experimenting with my boots, but here's what I know about my feet and boots:

1) clamping down on instep (I think this is the one you all are referring to the second one away from the toes?) buckle does little other than make my foot cramp in the arch. Doesn't make a difference in terms of response, unless you count the cramping.

2) the snugness of the cuff makes a noticeable difference for me. As in, "why the heck did my skiing feel soggy on that run?" and then looking down at boots and noticing that for whatever reason, the top buckles are not down or something.

 

[smpayne]

I unbuckle at the bottom the first two runs, almost always. If I don't, they hurt, but after about the first two runs everything is fine. I have also noticed that my feet don't always fit into the boots exactly the same from day to day. Finding just the right spot between too loose and cutting off my circulation is annoying.

I do find myself tightening or loosening my boots based on the conditions (and how well my legs are working or not working that day). I also find myself adjusting my boots based on which ski I am using. If the ski feels too soft for the conditions, the boots get cranked down (including the power strap) a bit more to stiffen them up.

 

[volklgirl]

Sounds to me like your boots don't fit? Seriously, when I tip my foot, there is no room at all in my boot for my foot to move without moving the boot. Even when completely unbuckled. The main reason I buckle the first two buckles (the ones over the feet) is to keep snow out.

Now, tightening the buckles will certainly give better response, that is true. But I don't think you're supposed to be able to "wobble" your foot inside a properly fitting boot. Pockets of air inside the boot?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

My reaction when I read that too.