num
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I just started reading this thread. What do you guys think?
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Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
Another "let's talk about this thread on epic" thread
- Thread starter num
- Start date
Native Vail Gal
Banned
Ugh! 
I started reading a few of the posts and I just had to stop!
That kind of thread is why I love the Ski Diva oh so much more!
Cognitively speaking....that is! :D
I started reading a few of the posts and I just had to stop!
That kind of thread is why I love the Ski Diva oh so much more!
Cognitively speaking....that is! :D
oragejuice
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Epic seems to be a verrrryyyyyyyyyy annoyingly male dominated board. 
Yuck.
Yuck.
mollmeister
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Epic seems to be a verrrryyyyyyyyyy annoyingly male dominated board.
Yuck.
And not so much male-dominated in the amusing young bro-brah sort of way, in which you can forgive them because of their (handsome? talented?) relative youth. But in the *middle-aged white guy* sorta way.
I really like some of the guys over there. . . but these threads. . . .BLAH.
bklyn
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ugh!
I started reading a few of the posts and I just had to stop!...
Yeah, I did the same. More and more I am just turned off reading over there. The same tired arguments, the same characters pushing the same tired agendas, the same people posing as experts who hardly ski...
ZZZzzzzzz.....
On a more serious note, as an answer to the original question... ski instruction never appealed to me because I didn't want to be stuck with (babysitting) kids lessons. Men get fast tracked into adult ski school, while women are pushed into childrens programs. You'd have to be twice as good or willing to invest twice as much time to break the thinking behind how students are assigned.
Ski Spirit
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think Mollmeister is probably right about the demographics of Epic.
When I was trying to research women's ski clinics, I tried many sources including Epic. Interestingly I was interacting primarily with men who were telling me what their wives had done.....as opposed to the women directly.....because they don't choose to participate in Epic's discussions.
Ski Diva is completely different. The women are so supportive of each other and there's a lot of knowledge to draw on.
But I do find that Epic can also be a good source of info to draw on..(not to mention get contacts for buying skis like Dawgcatching), so I hang out on the periphery and participate when something draws me in.........
When I was trying to research women's ski clinics, I tried many sources including Epic. Interestingly I was interacting primarily with men who were telling me what their wives had done.....as opposed to the women directly.....because they don't choose to participate in Epic's discussions.
Ski Diva is completely different. The women are so supportive of each other and there's a lot of knowledge to draw on.
But I do find that Epic can also be a good source of info to draw on..(not to mention get contacts for buying skis like Dawgcatching), so I hang out on the periphery and participate when something draws me in.........
perma-grin
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I really can't believe that it didn't occur to any of these guy's to look at what a great deal (not all) of women are doing from the ages of 25 to 44 (have to remember Snowmeiser) and that would be having childeren. That might have a tiny bit to do with why women aren't more actively participating in the sport in general. I couldn't get day care is the #1 reason given for having to cancel out of our 4 day womens ski programs. And I know it's just as tough on our younger Instructors with childeren. Travel requirements for the D-team can be a hugh strain on relationships. You would need to be blessed with a very supportive partner in that respect whether you are a man or a women. Not many of the women on the D-team have children. Actually I can't think of a female member who had children while on the team? 
Heck just traveling to teach a clinic or take an educational clinic when my son was younger was a strain on my relationship with the SO. I know that I am not alone in this respect when it comes to being a Ski Instructor, female or male. Unfortunately I think this is a large part of the reason that so many female instructors put off advancing their certification. It isn't their lack of ability but their lack of time. I have the deepest respect and admiration for the members of the Alpine Demonstration team. Reguardless of their sex. This isn't a competion of strength so much as ability. The ability to teach and ski, it's not a race. In dressage competitions men and women compete against each other on the same test. It's me and my horse against him and his horse. It is my talent as a rider and my ability to work with my horse, not my sex that determines my score. That is also the way D-team tryouts work. It is based off of your talent as a skier and a teacher. Not your sex. 
The female and male members the D- team are the most talented Instructors in the USA. It is an insult to all L3 PSIA female instructors, and it to insinuates that we physically can't ski and teach up to par with the male L3's, by suggesting a "quota" should be created to put more women on the D-team. There are thousands of male Instructors that don't make that team either but no one would dare suggest that you lower the standards to help them along. The female L3's don't need it lowered for them either. Sorry but it always seems that it gets down to if you make it and you are female that you had to get "helped" along. It really p*sses me off. I am a d*mn good skier, Instructor, and trainer not because I'm a women but sometimes in spite of it! The truth is most men can't stand the Idea of losing, let alone getting "Chicked" (racer term). God forbid when that happens! I don't know any women that have their level 3 that didn't earn just like the guys, it's a flippin hard test! It was just as hard on the guys in my group as it was on the women, maybe harder since the guy's were older but hadn't been teacing as long. And unfortunately for them they didn't pass :( . Sorry this has turned into a rant. 
I guess thats why I seldom post on epic But I was surpised at who the original poster was, I would prefer to think that he was trying to help not hinder female instructors in PSIA. I guess all I really needed to say was this: I feel that putting a female to male quota on the D-team will diminsh not enhance the accomplishments of the very talented female members of the team, current and alumni. 
It would serve no purpose other than to foster the opinion that women skiers can't hang with the "big boys". Lol! Besides everbody knows "if you want to run with the big dogs, ya gotta be able to pee in the tall grass". Or at least that's what my old coach use to tell me!
Heck just traveling to teach a clinic or take an educational clinic when my son was younger was a strain on my relationship with the SO. I know that I am not alone in this respect when it comes to being a Ski Instructor, female or male. Unfortunately I think this is a large part of the reason that so many female instructors put off advancing their certification. It isn't their lack of ability but their lack of time. I have the deepest respect and admiration for the members of the Alpine Demonstration team. Reguardless of their sex. This isn't a competion of strength so much as ability. The ability to teach and ski, it's not a race. In dressage competitions men and women compete against each other on the same test. It's me and my horse against him and his horse. It is my talent as a rider and my ability to work with my horse, not my sex that determines my score. That is also the way D-team tryouts work. It is based off of your talent as a skier and a teacher. Not your sex. The female and male members the D- team are the most talented Instructors in the USA. It is an insult to all L3 PSIA female instructors, and it to insinuates that we physically can't ski and teach up to par with the male L3's, by suggesting a "quota" should be created to put more women on the D-team. There are thousands of male Instructors that don't make that team either but no one would dare suggest that you lower the standards to help them along. The female L3's don't need it lowered for them either. Sorry but it always seems that it gets down to if you make it and you are female that you had to get "helped" along. It really p*sses me off. I am a d*mn good skier, Instructor, and trainer not because I'm a women but sometimes in spite of it! The truth is most men can't stand the Idea of losing, let alone getting "Chicked" (racer term). God forbid when that happens! I don't know any women that have their level 3 that didn't earn just like the guys, it's a flippin hard test! It was just as hard on the guys in my group as it was on the women, maybe harder since the guy's were older but hadn't been teacing as long. And unfortunately for them they didn't pass :( . Sorry this has turned into a rant. I guess thats why I seldom post on epic But I was surpised at who the original poster was, I would prefer to think that he was trying to help not hinder female instructors in PSIA. I guess all I really needed to say was this: I feel that putting a female to male quota on the D-team will diminsh not enhance the accomplishments of the very talented female members of the team, current and alumni. It would serve no purpose other than to foster the opinion that women skiers can't hang with the "big boys". Lol! Besides everbody knows "if you want to run with the big dogs, ya gotta be able to pee in the tall grass". Or at least that's what my old coach use to tell me!
It's fine, let them talk all day long. It's people that act that way that light a fire under my a$$ and get me motivated to rip down that hill bigger and better than them. Let them talk, let them waste their time... all the while there words are spilling out and I pass them on the hill.
A co-worker of mine whom I started out the season skiing with and I were talking one day. He is negative and shovenistic in nature and I mentioned to him that I was going to Vail on that particular weekend and that I was going to try to learn bumps. His reply - "i don't know about that. you probably shouldn't do that until you learn how to fly down blacks." i was shocked. and that was the last time i hung out with him or skiied alongside him. but, i went to vail that weekend. and i skiied bumps. the whole time in my head, i could hear his voice in his nasty a$$ wisconsin accent - "i don't know about that........ i don't know about that....... i don't know about that......"
Now, the next time we go skiing together, believe you me... he won't be able to keep up.
So, let them talk... let them talk all day long. Actions speak louder than words...
A co-worker of mine whom I started out the season skiing with and I were talking one day. He is negative and shovenistic in nature and I mentioned to him that I was going to Vail on that particular weekend and that I was going to try to learn bumps. His reply - "i don't know about that. you probably shouldn't do that until you learn how to fly down blacks." i was shocked. and that was the last time i hung out with him or skiied alongside him. but, i went to vail that weekend. and i skiied bumps. the whole time in my head, i could hear his voice in his nasty a$$ wisconsin accent - "i don't know about that........ i don't know about that....... i don't know about that......"
Now, the next time we go skiing together, believe you me... he won't be able to keep up.
So, let them talk... let them talk all day long. Actions speak louder than words...
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I agree. There have been several threads like that over the years at epic (ie, "why don't more women [fill in the blank]", and I'm always piping up saying the same thing.
No, it isn't all women, and no, it isn't always the reason, but for most (enough to cause the big gap they're talking about) it IS. And not just for skiing, but for anything.
alaski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
yeeesh.
I get so annoyed when people act surprised that women are good athletes. This should no longer be a surprise to anyone. Why can't we just be good skiers instead of good female skiers?
And that type of thread is why I so enjoy smoking testosterone-driven "young guns" on the skin track up.
I get so annoyed when people act surprised that women are good athletes. This should no longer be a surprise to anyone. Why can't we just be good skiers instead of good female skiers?
And that type of thread is why I so enjoy smoking testosterone-driven "young guns" on the skin track up.
alaski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
"The very best professional women golfers, tennis players, sprinters, long distance runners, volleyball players, basketball players... well, you get the point... are NOT physically capable of competing with the very best men."
Eh? I kind of remember a little tennis challenge a few years back in which the "very best man" was completely smoked by "the very best woman".....if anyone posts on Epic (I don't) perhaps they can remind ol' Bob of that little event.
Eh? I kind of remember a little tennis challenge a few years back in which the "very best man" was completely smoked by "the very best woman".....if anyone posts on Epic (I don't) perhaps they can remind ol' Bob of that little event.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Uh, what was that?
Listen, I'm for women's athletics as much as anyone, but it's true that women lack the speed and strength to compete with the best men. This isn't to say that many women aren't better than many men, but when it gets to the top, it's not really even close.
It's okay, it is what it is.Native Vail Gal
Banned
I agree. AND...I think that some women have a chip on their shoulders and they need to just accept things for the way they are, continue to change what they can't and go on living their lives without bitterness.
You learn to pick your battles after a certain point. This one is really not one that warrants any type of "yeah...well.....I can do _________ better than you!" That is just playing into the hand of those who like to argue and fight and get people riled up!
I think it is best to spend our energies on more productive topics and causes....like women's education, health care, and freedom and rights in other parts of the world.
Skiing is fun. We are lucky to have it. Just enjoy it for YOU....not to show up anyone else! :D
You learn to pick your battles after a certain point. This one is really not one that warrants any type of "yeah...well.....I can do _________ better than you!" That is just playing into the hand of those who like to argue and fight and get people riled up!
I think it is best to spend our energies on more productive topics and causes....like women's education, health care, and freedom and rights in other parts of the world.
Skiing is fun. We are lucky to have it. Just enjoy it for YOU....not to show up anyone else! :D
alaski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs in the Battle of the Sexes? How have you not heard of that? Probably because the woman won! If Riggs had won we'd never hear the end of it.
Women CAN and do perform better than men in athletics. Women consistently beat men in ultramarathons and are closing the gap in track and field events (which is consistent with the relatively short time women have been competing in such events - given another 100 years and there will be no difference).
I am stronger than many men I know and have more endurance than every man I've ever climbed with. I am not that fast but I can keep going 20 hours later while the guys need breaks. My body weight to squat ratio was ridiculous before my knee surgery - better than 99% of the men I have met who lift. So no, I do not believe that men are inherently better athletes. If you're not stronger or faster or better than the men you know, fine, but don't say that other women aren't!
And yes, it's worth fighting for (though not on the internet, but in the sports arena, just like Bobby and Billie).
Edited because a ration is not the same as a ratio.
Women CAN and do perform better than men in athletics. Women consistently beat men in ultramarathons and are closing the gap in track and field events (which is consistent with the relatively short time women have been competing in such events - given another 100 years and there will be no difference).
I am stronger than many men I know and have more endurance than every man I've ever climbed with. I am not that fast but I can keep going 20 hours later while the guys need breaks. My body weight to squat ratio was ridiculous before my knee surgery - better than 99% of the men I have met who lift. So no, I do not believe that men are inherently better athletes. If you're not stronger or faster or better than the men you know, fine, but don't say that other women aren't!
And yes, it's worth fighting for (though not on the internet, but in the sports arena, just like Bobby and Billie).
Edited because a ration is not the same as a ratio.
Did any of you look at the OP of the thread?
IT was started 4 years ago, and only recently dug up by Cirquerider who followed the epic link from a blog of a woman who is trying to break the barriers.
Bob Peters, the OP is a good man and is often embarrassed when his old archaic threads are dug up. He's a great man and does not emulate the vision of Chauvinism.
Bklyn, I understand and agree with you that much of Epic is same old, same old, but most forums are.
Epic is evolving, waists are getting wider, and lines are blurring between the ski forums.
In a thread about fatties which was started by a bear that annoys(all forums have them) you(bkly) posted this, but didn't follow up and see that a couple of skinny ski advocates are getting pounded and harassed for their narrow minded attitude about mid fats and fat skis. These same tired discussions are posted over and over on all these forums.
The basic difference at Epic, is the concentrated effort in the instruction area.
I enjoy mixing it up wit da boyz at EpicSki, but I don't and probably never will embrace the dedicated instruction forums. Just the way I am.
IT was started 4 years ago, and only recently dug up by Cirquerider who followed the epic link from a blog of a woman who is trying to break the barriers.
Bob Peters, the OP is a good man and is often embarrassed when his old archaic threads are dug up. He's a great man and does not emulate the vision of Chauvinism.
Bklyn, I understand and agree with you that much of Epic is same old, same old, but most forums are.
Epic is evolving, waists are getting wider, and lines are blurring between the ski forums.
In a thread about fatties which was started by a bear that annoys(all forums have them) you(bkly) posted this, but didn't follow up and see that a couple of skinny ski advocates are getting pounded and harassed for their narrow minded attitude about mid fats and fat skis. These same tired discussions are posted over and over on all these forums.
The basic difference at Epic, is the concentrated effort in the instruction area.
I enjoy mixing it up wit da boyz at EpicSki, but I don't and probably never will embrace the dedicated instruction forums. Just the way I am.
Ski Spirit
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Picking Your Battles
Agree, my attitude toward Epic in general is , "take what you want and leave the rest". People who want to argue and fight will spend a lot of time doing that (consciously or otherwise)
but I'd rather spend my time doing more productive things.....
Agree, my attitude toward Epic in general is , "take what you want and leave the rest". People who want to argue and fight will spend a lot of time doing that (consciously or otherwise)
but I'd rather spend my time doing more productive things.....
Exactly!Agree, my attitude toward Epic in general is , "take what you want and leave the rest". People who want to argue and fight will spend a lot of time doing that (consciously or otherwise)
but I'd rather spend my time doing more productive things.....
Like a buffet. You don't have to eat everything on the buffet, to enjoy the meal.
BTW, I would not encourage a thread on Epic that dogs Ski Diva, and I'm not entirely comfortable about a thread on Ski Diva that dogs epic. In fact, I think this is worse because a majority of Epics members can't come here to defend themselves, yet, we all can join epic to say our piece.
