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Another heel lift question.. is this obscenely big??

MissySki

Angel Diva
I'm having quad pain this season that is starting to feel like more than early season soreness and not improving with more ski days..

My boots are not new, but I didn't ski much the past couple of years due to changes in my personal life, so I can't say that quad fatigue wasn't an issue then as well I just wasn't as concerned because I wasn't skiing very regularly and thought that might be why.

I don't FEEL like I'm in the backseat when I'm skiing and am trying to consciously assess this, but my symptoms seem to indicate that I'm riding my quads and therefore back too far regardless. The burning is making me have to stop during runs where I usually wouldn't need to in conditions that shouldn't be very tiring and I'm also finding myself skiing slower than normal because I'm not feeling as comfortable at speed, perhaps because I'm letting my skis get ahead of my weight? Or that might also be because I'm not confident in my leg strength because they feel weak and burning, not sure.

So my thoughts are 1) take a lesson to see if I have developed some bad habit that can be tweaked. 2) check out my boots because I know I have a heel lift, but unsure how big.

I took my boots apart today and found that my lift is 1/2 inch (see blue part on pic), which I thought seemed really big, but I'm not sure if that is the case or not. However, given how much we have discussed binding ramp angle offset of a few mm, I thought a half inch sounded ginormous. I also thought I had much smaller heel lifts in the past. I took them out and definitely notice a difference in my stance obviously. I can stand up taller. Feels like I went from high heels to flats. Not sure how my fit will be affected though, definitely feels a little different, but can't really assess anything until I can get back on the snow.

Thoughts on these heel lifts?? Things to note are that I have hyperflexible ankles, so no issues of mobility there that might make heel lifts more necessary and my calfs are not overly large either to need to be lifted higher in the cuff. I believe the reason for them being added when I bought my boots was that they made my weight distribution more even across my foot when we scanned me with and without them. I was skeptical at first at the time, but did feel more balanced when I started skiing them conpared to my old boots so I thought all was well. However, I've never skied these specific boots without the heel lifts.

I know I can't really get any diagnosis until I ski.. then it will either be a huge difference or a disaster and I'll need to put them back in and go the lesson route to fix technique issues. Just curious what you all think about the lift size, if there is anything else you'd suggest, etc.

I'll be at Diva west in a few weeks and am really concerned about quad fatigue on eastern runs with how much longer the runs are out there. Rather try and fix whatever I can asap before then if possible. Also not thrilled to start playing with boots in general though, yuck.
 

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Obrules15

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Everybody is a little different, I require the largest that fit in my boot. I know this because I've skied with multiple sizes of lift and the largest work best for me.

Ski with them, ski without them. Maybe try 1/4" and then YOU decide what you like best regardless of what anyone else says.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
1/2" sounds like a lot to me. But like Obrules said, you can play around.

Remember at Big Sky when Ursula told you and I that we had long femurs and even getting in the backseat a teeny tiny bit had big consequences for us? So unfair. :smile:
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
1/2"

Remember at Big Sky when Ursula told you and I that we had long femurs and even getting in the backseat a teeny tiny bit had big consequences for us? So unfair. :smile:

I do indeed remember this, and agree it is so unfair!

I wish I had yanked out the lifts to try without when I was out at the mountain yesterday.. it's going to bug me until i can get back on snow now to try playing around with things.
 

HikenSki

Angel Diva
I was out for the first time this week and was experiencing some quad soreness so I thought maybe I was spending too much time in the backseat. But because I've not been able to work on leg strength exercises the last month due to some personal issues, it could have also just been soreness as the snow was bumpy and spring-like. I remembered I had lifts put in my boots a few years ago to help fill in some space in front of my ankle. I thought maybe my stance had changed since I've got new skis and am a much better skier than two years ago. I took them out and skied about half day before confirming that without them I could not get forward and flex the boot. I went back to the condo, popped them back in, and bam, felt better immediately. Worth a shot to take them out or try 1/4" ones just to see your body responds.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I was out for the first time this week and was experiencing some quad soreness so I thought maybe I was spending too much time in the backseat. But because I've not been able to work on leg strength exercises the last month due to some personal issues, it could have also just been soreness as the snow was bumpy and spring-like. I remembered I had lifts put in my boots a few years ago to help fill in some space in front of my ankle. I thought maybe my stance had changed since I've got new skis and am a much better skier than two years ago. I took them out and skied about half day before confirming that without them I could not get forward and flex the boot. I went back to the condo, popped them back in, and bam, felt better immediately. Worth a shot to take them out or try 1/4" ones just to see your body responds.

When you had them out, did your quads feel any better? Or was there no difference there since you said you couldn't get forward without them?

My legs were sore to begin with yesterday before skiing from other weekday workouts, but I still don't think I shouldn't be able to make it down a full run that I normally could without stopping due to burning pain..

I'm definitely looking forward to trying to ski without them and then would also try the 1/4 inch if that goes poorly. I am a little worried if there will be a problem from not taking up the room that was being filled with it as well for fit. Just standing in my kitchen without them feels nice on my legs, but that certainly doesn't predict how the actual skiing will go unfortunately!
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I tried heel lifts last year, mostly to take up space, and it threw me completely off. This year I have a different foot bed to take up the space and some of those sticky pads on the outside of the liner to lock my heel down. Much better. Now I need to be careful which socks I grab, most of my ski socks are too thick.
 

tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@MissySki Was there a reason you got the heel lifts? Was it to take up room in the boot or??? I ask, because heel lifts actually put me farther in the backseat.
 

HikenSki

Angel Diva
When you had them out, did your quads feel any better? Or was there no difference there since you said you couldn't get forward without them?

I pretty much knew by the third run I needed to put them back in. My quads started to hurt and as the slope got steeper leg burn creeped when it hadn't earlier with similar conditions. I've had them in for two years, so I think my boots kind of molded to my foot in that position. So when I took them out, my heel didn't feel locked in and just standing it felt like the flex point of the boot was off. Very weird. By yesterday, the fourth day, my legs were nowhere near as sore, so I am thinking I'm getting out of the back seat and they are just not used to being worked since I've not been able to workout for the last month.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
@MissySki Was there a reason you got the heel lifts? Was it to take up room in the boot or??? I ask, because heel lifts actually put me farther in the backseat.

When I originally got the boots the fitter uses this scanning machine that you stand on and it shows where your weight is distributed. I can't remember all of the details except that the lift balanced my weight across the entire foot better rather than where it was concentrated without them. So no it was not originally to take up any space. I agree in the past I've also had issues with being pushed too far back with the lifts, but I wanted to give it a go since it was a new boot and seemed to be what balanced things out. Originally it didn't seem to cause such an issue (though anything was a vast improvement over my old boots), which is why I'm wondering if it's me more than the lifts or what..
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I tried heel lifts last year, mostly to take up space, and it threw me completely off. This year I have a different foot bed to take up the space and some of those sticky pads on the outside of the liner to lock my heel down. Much better. Now I need to be careful which socks I grab, most of my ski socks are too thick.

Glad to hear I can hopefully fix any fit issues if I can leave the lifts out. The only spot I think could be an issue is my instep because it's so so low that the lift gave me nice contact above it that I can't usually achieve.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I pretty much knew by the third run I needed to put them back in. My quads started to hurt and as the slope got steeper leg burn creeped when it hadn't earlier with similar conditions. I've had them in for two years, so I think my boots kind of molded to my foot in that position. So when I took them out, my heel didn't feel locked in and just standing it felt like the flex point of the boot was off. Very weird. By yesterday, the fourth day, my legs were nowhere near as sore, so I am thinking I'm getting out of the back seat and they are just not used to being worked since I've not been able to workout for the last month.

Glad to hear your quads are doing better overall, hopefully there will be a resolution to my issue one way or the other soon as well!
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
One thing I was also wondering about.. I've been having some burning feeling pain under the balls of my feet, can that be caused by the lifts as well? I ask because that's the feeling I also get in certain high heels in recent years. I assume due to the fat pad breaking down as you age, it feels like walking directly on your bone which is a reason I've greatly reduced wearing heels in general. I was thinking perhaps I could be inadvertently putting my weight backwards trying to get some of the pressure off of that area?
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
One thing I was also wondering about.. I've been having some burning feeling pain under the balls of my feet, can that be caused by the lifts as well? I ask because that's the feeling I also get in certain high heels in recent years. I assume due to the fat pad breaking down as you age, it feels like walking directly on your bone which is a reason I've greatly reduced wearing heels in general. I was thinking perhaps I could be inadvertently putting my weight backwards trying to get some of the pressure off of that area?

Heel lifts got rid of that for me. But.....how old are your boots? Could it be that the forefoot is trying to expand to fill the space. This will create the same pain I found out.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Definitely get them out of there and go ski. It'll probably feel weird for a run or two, but it sure sounds like they are causing you some issues.

They are out, can't wait to go try them now! I happened upon your thread on another forum yesterday when I was googling for heel lift stuff since it's going to bug me until I get back on snow. It seems so simple, I hope I'm not opening a can of worms! :rolleyes:
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Heel lifts got rid of that for me. But.....how old are your boots? Could it be that the forefoot is trying to expand to fill the space. This will create the same pain I found out.

So I had 1 full season on them and then 2 seasons where I didn't ski much at all (I think 12-15 days and then only 3 days total last season), so this would be season 4. They definitely have not packed out much in the forefoot area though, or anywhere else that is obvious to me. From others I know who have this boot, I've heard the liners are really good and don't really do much packing out, seems to match my experience so far. In fact I'd like it to pack out a tiny bit more in the forefoot on my right foot because I always have to do some 6th toe area stretching with new boots and I've wondered if I should do a tiny bit more or not occassionally when it feels too snug there. Throughout the ski day my foot usually settles in and then I fear if I stretch more in that spot it may be too much so I haven't. All this to say, I don't believe that there is additional space that my foot is trying to fill now.

Though I wonder if something has changed that I can't identify to be just now experiencing more issues than the previous few years.. Last year didn't really count since I barely got out and all, but I'd have thought that year one should have brought this stuff to light if it was just the setup. That's why I also wonder if it's just some sort of regression from less skiing in recent time and a lesson might help that. Could also be that I'm not as strong as I was previously to overcome whatever issue has always been there..

You sound as though you've had a similiar experience with heel lifts!
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
I'm definitely looking forward to trying to ski without them and then would also try the 1/4 inch if that goes poorly. I am a little worried if there will be a problem from not taking up the room that was being filled with it as well for fit. Just standing in my kitchen without them feels nice on my legs, but that certainly doesn't predict how the actual skiing will go unfortunately!

You can always add an insole shim under your foot bed to take up a little bit of space. Couple years ago I ordered a few different heights for shims, a heel lift, and some sticky boot fitting pads from Bootfitting Supply. I wouldn't go as far as punching out my own boots, but I liked being able to play with the fit, and feel the difference with heel lifts, shims and padding. Being able to feel what worked and what didn't, without a bootfitter just saying "you need this" (which is extremely subjective). Physically being able to try different fits, what I need, became an objective statement.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
With my Kryzmas, the heel lifts were a disaster. They put my foot into completely the wrong position in the boot. This had two effects: one was to toss me into the back seat, but it also kept popping me up and out of the heel cup and I slid forward in the boot. The boots were just too big period. However, when I took the heel lifts out, the boots skied much better. I did develop pain in the ball of my foot after a few hours of skiing.

I have heel lifts again in my new boots - properly sized boot. I only needed the heel lift in one foot but both have them for obvious reasons. I no longer have pain in the ball of my feet but I do have to work on staying forward. I need the lift though. I have terrible dorsiflexion in my left ankle and it's a bone issue so it will never be better. I am having to adjust to the heel lift though. I got used to skiing without and just adapting to my lack of flexibility.
 

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