Advanced skier but still get on hill panic attacks

[ElizaK]

I started skiing 10 years ago and love it . I only started in my 40s and now at 51 , I can confidently ski virtually any blue run in Canada - (sounds fine so far so you may wonder why is there a problem !) In the early days I had one to two episodes a season of utterly panic on the hill . I would start tightening up my turns and then come to an abrupt stop , refusing to move at all and sometimes even requiring rescue by ski patrol .
Well last year I started skiing black runs and all went well until today when I froze on a steep black and my husband had to ski down and then return in the Gondola and slowly encourage me to side step my way BACK UP !!! ( God nor man could convince me to ski down despite the fact that I skied that run twice the day before without event!!) . Now I am not a fearful person otherwise - I hold have a high risk career and I always try to push myself to my limits ( that might be part of the problem) When fear doesnt overcome me I can ski at an advanced intermediate level but when fear sets in I can just totally stop and utterly refuse to move !!
I take lessons occasionally and clock in 20 plus days of skiing a year . Despite my occasional paralyzing fear I have advanced well but I so want to overcome these panic episodes
Does anyone have an ideas or even a similar experience

 

[Little Lightning]

Believe in yourself. Think "I can" instead of "I can't".
Pole Plants
Keep moving. Look for a comfortable spot to ski to. Yesterday I accidentally ended up on a black, steep, hard pack run. Fortunately, there was soft snow below us off to the side. It looked friendly. I skied down to it and stopped. Should have kept going because the position I was in required me to make my turn on my left side. I froze, couldn't move. I kept telling myself "I can do this". Finally, I planted my pole and turned and skied to the bottom. I didn't fall, or hurt myself.
My personal trainer told me I don't have enough confidence in myself. He's right. I also have a fear of heights.

 

[Serafina]

You are not alone.

I have wicked acrophobia. If I want to ski steeps, it needs to be a narrow, winding run - even though it's more challenging to ski those narrow runs, that's the only way I won't freeze like the proverbial deer in headlights. I can't handle it AT ALL if I can see all the way down the run to the base.

Not just steeps, either. I was skiing Sugarbush a couple of years ago, and knew that I had no business taking the upper mountain lifts since I'd just wind up paralyzed from that damn phobia, so I took a mid-mountain lift and traversed over to a bunch of blue cruisers that I'd heard were way fun. Only the traverse was a cat track with a reeeeaaallly steep drop-off on one side. Mr. S. was overcome by idiotic insensitivity, and was all "Hey! Check out this view! Wow! No, really, stop and look!" while I - having with one glance noticed that the tops of the fir trees are literally 15 feet off to my left, am using everything I've got to not completely flip out and create some kind of danger for myself and others. I had to keep my eyes glued to a space five or six feet in front of my ski tips and just keep shuffling along, hoping that these blue runs wouldn't have spectacular views that would send me over the edge into hysteria (they did, and I spent the entire time with my eyes super-glued to the slope 2 turns ahead, because if I looked around, I wouldn't be able to move an inch and probably need to have ski patrol bail me out).

I actually do not like skiing out west AT ALL for this very reason. Those wide-open spaces and hundred-mile views are a source of naked terror for me, as are - god help me - the lifts with those staggeringly tall lift towers and no darned bars. That's the worst, riding some lift that fills like it's a mile above the earth's surface, and no bar at all to provide even a fiction of security. I'm pretty sure I left dents in the back and side of a lift chair out at Steamboat, I was clutching it that hard.

I even started to lose it when I was doing a VR thing that had me floating above the ground. I white-knuckled my seat all the way through that experience.

There's nothing for it, either. Acrophobia is one of those things that seems to be a species survival trait, and is really resistant to the usual approaches that help people get over phobias. Cognitive behavior therapy for this, for me, translates to "try to avoid that situation". Fortunately, as a New England skier, one thing I can usually count on is narrow, winding ski trails that don't show me too much of the mountain while I'm skiing it...

 

[kiki]

I have a lot of the same issues. I have unreasonable terror when it is unwarranted. I take it one turn at a time when it goes bad, or like today, side slip a bit when i feel fozen to give myself time to get calm. Look at the trees and take some deep breaths.
Don't give up/-to make up for the bad days there are also the good days.

 

[mustski]

It's called being "gripped," and it happens to many people. It's a physical response to terrain that frightens us and it's bad! The classic symptom is body clenching and an inability to move. There are certain types of terrain that I cannot drop into. LOL. @Serafina narrow, twisty windy runs and chutes are my biggest demons. I WANT to see all the way to the bottom. It's not necessarily a rational fear. A run that you ski everyday can suddenly seem harder due to a change in conditions (ie: icy, rutted, cut up, etc.). In that situation, I take it one turn at a time. Turn and stop. Turn and stop. Although I know it is much harder to turn from a dead stop, at least I feel a semblance of control.

If I know that a run may cause me to get gripped, even though I have just skied it, I try to drop in without hesitating. You can try self talk, you can try singing, you can also program the ski patrol phone number into your phone. In the event, there is no one there to talk you down, call ski patrol. They will help. It's part of their job.

Then go right back out and ski some easy terrain and get that feeling of confidence back.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

FWIW, I become incapacitated every time I fall, especially if I hit my head, however lightly. I've never had a real concussion, but I act a little bit like I've had one, sometimes even if I didn't hit my head on the snow: shivering, weak legged, fearful, unable to plan my line, unable to proceed. After a long rest, I can usually get myself down, but once this happens, the day is basically done; within a day or two, I get a migraine.

Once I fell on my buttocks in the bathroom. Same thing.

There are a number of factors that make this response worse. 1) When I'm cold. 2) When my blood sugar is low. 3) Annoyingly, when my blood sugar is high, which also makes me cold. 4) If I hadn't slept well. 5) If I'd had any alcohol the day before (for many people, alcohol causes anxiety/panic the day after) or any caffeine the day before or on the day (caffeine makes me prone to vertigo, so it's a no-no on ski days, and gives me a migraine the day after). 6) If I'd gone down a long run without a break. 7) If I had gone down a really rough run with lots of vibration, which seems to have the same effect as hitting my head.

Likely, none of these apply, but just in case.

@Serafina narrow, twisty windy runs and chutes are my biggest demons. I WANT to see all the way to the bottom.

Same with me. I need the trail to be as wide as possible and with maximum visibility down hill (although being able to see the parking lot freaks me out a bit, because it gives me too clear a sense of proportion). Funny how we are all different.

 

[contesstant]

Yes! I am the same way! And as Serafina said above, it's the fear of heights that really grips me. So, long steeps get to me. Baby steps, bite off steeps in baby steps. Be patient with yourself.

There is a run at Grand Targhee (well, two, actually) that is a steep blue that starts out much steeper at the top, and runs top-to-bottom. Well, we skied it in very low vis on day 1 (two years ago) in powder, and I did fine. The next day, the sun was out, I could see all the way down, and I panicked.

Last season, I skied both runs with few issues. Heading there this weekend, and I am not only going to SKI them, I am going to OWN them!

One other thing that made a huge difference for me was getting into boots that had less ramp angle and forward lean. I was in a Head junior race boot, and they were just too aggressive for my timid brain. I'd get on steeps and feel like I had zero control over my skis. Oh, AND I got on shorter skis which made short radius turns easier. Short radius are your friend on steeps.

So, ask yourself: What is making your fearful on steeps? Is it a control issue? Or is it heights? Or both?

 

[Abbi]

@Serafina I am SO with you on the high lifts with no bars! I'm not a fan of heights and then ....... BRRRRR

 

[Obrules15]

I know I sound like a broken record at this point but it was such a profound revelation that I have to keep repeating it. When I got properly sized boots a few years ago my level of fear and dropped tremendously (as in 1st run) and it can still come back if I forget to buckle my boots.

For me the amount of bouncing around that happens in a too big boot tells my brain that I really don't have control over my skis and my brain (being the wonderful organ that it is) stops me from skiing. It manifests as fear but it is really an equipment problem. At least try one run with boots buckled tighter (though that doesn't fix the problem with a too big boot, it does change how you feel in that boot).

 

[liquidfeet]

I know I sound like a broken record at this point but it was such a profound revelation that I have to keep repeating it. When I got properly sized boots a few years ago my level of fear and dropped tremendously (as in 1st run) and it can still come back if I forget to buckle my boots.

For me the amount of bouncing around that happens in a too big boot tells my brain that I really don't have control over my skis and my brain (being the wonderful organ that it is) stops me from skiing. It manifests as fear but it is really an equipment problem. At least try one run with boots buckled tighter (though that doesn't fix the problem with a too big boot, it does change how you feel in that boot).

^This. Tremendous insecurity invades the mind when the foot is slipping around inside the boot, even a little. Been there done that... for too many years when bootfitters put me into too-big boots, telling me they fit. How was I supposed to know?

 

[Sparky]

Yes, I also need wide open and able to see the bottom! I agree with @mustski, don’t hesitate and just go. Of course that’s easier said than done. I know for me it’s often just getting past the first two turns. But knowing that, I try to suck it up and just get through that and it’s usually fine after. I also listen to music which sometimes helps, I’ll just start singing and go!

 

[santacruz skier]

Almost always listen to music.... somehow I think it improves my rhythm .

 

[asherz515]

I get PTSD of sorts on the steeps. Something that really helped me was taking a lesson to help me believe in myself and mad ski skills. I have to tell myself to point those damn skis downhill sometimes just to get started. The first turn is always the worst, then once I get going I'm usually okay but shaky.
Still fun though, If you don't enjoy it then don't do steep stuff??? I'm a firm believer if its not fun why do it? Or risk an injury?
I super happy just ripping blue groomers. Yes its nice to push yourself sometimes, but I'm fine hanging alone and doing that if needed. Its all about fun for me.

 

[Ice Kitten]

^This. Tremendous insecurity invades the mind when the foot is slipping around inside the boot, even a little. Been there done that... for too many years when bootfitters put me into too-big boots, telling me they fit. How was I supposed to know?

I have a noob question on this...how does one figure out if some difficulty with skiing is down to poor boot fit? I've been beginning to suspect my boots are slightly too big - the buckles have to be really tight for me to feel like I can maneuver them correctly, my feet cramp up (almost like they're swimming around), etc. I know the standard advice is to get to a bootfitter, but there isn't one in our city (we're in the midwest), so that's going to have to wait for a while. Is there any sort of short-term fix to determine if that really is the cause?

 

[Obrules15]

I have a noob question on this...how does one figure out if some difficulty with skiing is down to poor boot fit? I've been beginning to suspect my boots are slightly too big - the buckles have to be really tight for me to feel like I can maneuver them correctly, my feet cramp up (almost like they're swimming around), etc. I know the standard advice is to get to a bootfitter, but there isn't one in our city (we're in the midwest), so that's going to have to wait for a while. Is there any sort of short-term fix to determine if that really is the cause?

That's the definition of too big, and not slightly either. Some say that a properly fitted boot should be able to be skied unbuckled.

Where in the midwest are you?

 

[vickie]

Short-term fixes are limited only by your creativity. I had boots that went sloppy late in the season and needed to make do. I got peel-and-stick vinyl tiles from Home Depot and cut out full-sized inserts to take up some volume. Desperate times, desperate measures.

 

[mustski]

^This. Tremendous insecurity invades the mind when the foot is slipping around inside the boot, even a little. Been there done that... for too many years when bootfitters put me into too-big boots, telling me they fit. How was I supposed to know?

I have skied the last 5 seasons in boots that are too big. This has left me tremendously insecure in any difficult snow. I have new boots that fit correctly, but I am fighting the belief that I can't ski in tough snow conditions. I got gripped today on a run that I have skied a million/zillion times. I caught an edge and fell -HARD- and had to be done for the day. Bad visibility definitely contributed to my insecurity, but it's like retraining myself.

 

[liquidfeet]

I have a noob question on this...how does one figure out if some difficulty with skiing is down to poor boot fit? I've been beginning to suspect my boots are slightly too big - the buckles have to be really tight for me to feel like I can maneuver them correctly, my feet cramp up (almost like they're swimming around), etc. I know the standard advice is to get to a bootfitter, but there isn't one in our city (we're in the midwest), so that's going to have to wait for a while. Is there any sort of short-term fix to determine if that really is the cause?

You already know the answer. They are too big. :(

Take the liner out. Stand up with your bare foot in the shell. Push it forward so the toes are against the front wall. How much space is behind your heel? One pencil diameter is a race fit. One and a half pencil is a performance fit. Two pencils is fine until the liner packs out, which won't be long. Then they will be too long.

One foot will be bigger than the other usually. Buy boots that fit the smaller foot, and have the bootfitter grind/punch the shell to make room for the bigger foot. This service is included in the purchase price of the boot when you buy it from a brick and mortar ski shop with a knowledgeable bootfitter.

But that shell fit I just described only deals with the length. The boot also needs to be very snug in width and height over the foot, and snug around the lower leg. Your tight buckles and clenching feet trying to fill the space tell the story there.

Shops with a lot of stock and a knowledgeable bootfitter will be able to find a boot whose shell matches your foot's anatomy. That's what everyone needs, but few find.

 

[Obrules15]

I have skied the last 5 seasons in boots that are too big. This has left me tremendously insecure in any difficult snow. I have new boots that fit correctly, but I am fighting the belief that I can't ski in tough snow conditions. I got gripped today on a run that I have skied a million/zillion times. I caught an edge and fell -HARD- and had to be done for the day. Bad visibility definitely contributed to my insecurity, but it's like retraining myself.

Now I have that Tubthumping song ringing in my ears (I get knocked down, but I get up again. You are never going to keep me down).

But that's OK, it's a pretty good life anthem!

 

[Ice Kitten]

Where in the midwest are you?

We're in central Wisconsin - I know there's a recommended bootfitter near Chicago (Viking Ski Shop), so we might aim to get there before next season. Chicago's not terribly far, but it's not an easy trip either.

Short-term fixes are limited only by your creativity. I had boots that went sloppy late in the season and needed to make do. I got peel-and-stick vinyl tiles from Home Depot and cut out full-sized inserts to take up some volume. Desperate times, desperate measures.

That's brilliant!

I was going to get some Superfeet to put in my boot to try and take some space, but I'm slightly hesitant to a) drop $50 on a short-term fix (especially if it doesn't work), and b) I'm a little worried about throwing my (already precarious) balance off any more than it is, especially if the angle of the padded heel throws me off kilter. Maybe I should try with some Walgreens insoles first!

You already know the answer. They are too big. :(

Thanks, liquidfeet, you're right. I guess I did know the answer but on the other hand I'm a bit worried that I'm going to splurge on a new pair of boots and find out that the problem was never the boots, it's really been my inability to ski all along! I'm also worried that I'll try some short-term fixes and make the problem worse than it is now.

It's good to have confirmation, though, that the problem isn't just in my head. I'll take your advice when we get to the ski shop and hopefully find something that works better.