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4 types of turns

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hey, expert skiers, what do you think of this?

I've been reviewing the types of turns I see people making, and the types I make. So far the turns seem to fall into four categories, which convenientlly follow a form progression that has to do with stance (tall ... to low), forwardness (not ... to really forward) and carving (some ... to lots, ... to whatever works).

Turn @1: Very very short turns, skiing the narrow line straight down the trail (good for narrow bits of snow on the sides of the trails, or for very steep slopes, double black). Stand up tall, keep feet pretty close together, pivot the lower body and the feet forcibly to initiate the turns, direct the tips of the skis into the snow, allow them to carve a short turn, and release with an up unweighting (sacreligious!!); repeat. This feels great! It's good to sing a fast paced song in your head while doing this to keep up the rhythm. Does not require "shopping" (looking for good snow to turn on;this means it works fine on dense hard stuff, i.e. ice). Works on hard-pack, since it involves lots of braking motions at the end of the turns. Not pure carving, but a hybrid of sorts. Some skis may deliver "pop," which feels fine and produces air.

Turn # 2: Medium radius turns. Great on groomed snow. Can be mostly carved. Crouch down somewhat; lean forward somewhat; keep feet shoulder-width apart; tip both skis to initiate turns, put most of your weight on the outside ski; ride the skis and they will carve a nice turn. You may apply extra pressure to your outside ski at the apex of the turn (half way through) to get extra grab on the snow/ice, and this will whip the skis around across the fall line to slow your speed, if you choose to do it. Intitiate turns by flexing the outside knee; your torso will plunge across the skis and begin the new turn without much upward movement. Repeat. Nice feeling. Sing a not-so-slow ballad in your head as you do this. You can shop for good snow on which to initiate your turns, if it's after lunch and most of everything is skied off. PSIA skiing by-the-book.

Turn #3. Large radius turns. VERY FAST. THRILLS for the BRAVE!!! Known by me as "keeping up with the boyz." (Or whatever.) Keep your head low; no up-unweighting allowed, just initiate turns by crossing the skis under your torso, but move easy. Tip the skis to initiate the turns, gently gently. Keep weight on that outside ski, and widen your stance more that in the turns above. Stay low low low, crouched and really angulated. Increase the angulation as you continue the L-O-N-G turn, lots of time being spend in the fall line. Your lower legs need to be bent forcibly forward at the ankles. Your weight needs to be FULLY on the outside ski. Your hands need to be reaching OUTRAGEOUSLY forward. Ride the turns. Narrow the line to keep up with the fastest guy (release and initiate turns faster). You can do it!! 45 mph, 50mph, 60 mph, who knows your limits??????????? Groomed hard-pack with absolutely no people but the guy you are trying to catch up with is good for this.

Turn #4. Race turns. Nastar race course, a GS-Slalom hybrid. Stay RIDICULOUSLY low to the ground. Lean RIDICULOUSLY forward, especiallly bending at the ankle to get your lower leg BENT FORWARD, not up. Keep your hips forward of your boots. Reach your hands out ricidulously forward as your turns reach their fastest part, in the fall line, as you clear the gate. You will feel like you are on the ground, hips about to touch snow but alas you aren't. If you could get even lower, you would go faster. But wait; there's more. You need to turn, just when it was feeling good. Turns don't feel good. No, NO. They are interruptions in the carve. You gotta initiate the darn turn, fast, now, no, a minute ago, and then because you didn't initiate it a minute ago now you gotta push real hard, did I say REAL HARD with your outside ski, like in the gym pressing 300 lbs, and if you're a weakling like me, you'll skid out, and then, just as you pressed so hard out against all that force to make your turn, and drats you skidded, you've got to -- here it is -- turn again!!. Release that downhill leg, start the new turn, keep your head low, no up-unweighting, legs apart and wide, and oh! are you ready for the next turn, because really this is a race and you must (remember???) be looking two or three gates ahead, and so it's time, no a minute ago, you should have initiated that turn, here you are skidding again. Repeat. Sorry, no time to sing. At the bottom of the course, you turn to see your time, and OH! despite the skidding, it's fast. Nice. You know you could have gone faster. Let's try that again.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Well LF " I think you got it". As a ski instructor we teach 3 types of turns for recreational skiers. Short, medium and long(large) turns. Racing is a different animal. Like swim racing, basic technique is there, but we need to change this "thing" to make it better. I'm not a racing coach but I understand the difference in the turn from what I teach recreational skiers. It's the same but emphasis is different. Keep in mind its not bad!! Better skiers emerge from race classes!!
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
A great summary, Liquidfeet! Nice to see it laid out like that. Good job.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Nice. I felt every one of those "turns". :cool:

Do you also go through the course yelling at yourself? My ususal is "Arrrgh, late, LATE, LATE!!!"
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
volklgirl said:
Nice. I felt every one of those "turns". :cool:
Do you also go through the course yelling at yourself? My ususal is "Arrrgh, late, LATE, LATE!!!"


Yes! My internal dialog usually goes like this: late, skid, rats, late, skid, double rats, late, skid, whoahh, if I don't get higher I'm going to have to travel UPHILL to get to that next gate, and I don't have time to look two gates ahead because this one is RIGHT HERE and I haven't even turned yet. Then it's whoohoo, I made it earlier around that one, can I recover? and finally it's yaaaaay, I'm on the flats now I can tuck, no more lates, tuck turn, tuck turn, done.

What's fascinating is that late schmate, I can get a good time despite the skidding. Is that the case with you too?
 

smpayne

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh, I love these descriptions. My stiff skis are happiest in #3. My new skis like #2 better, but they also like #3. I've spent so much time getting comfortable in #3 that when I got to UT and found some bumps and fluffy snow, it was like "I knew these poles were for more than getting my but off the ground. Plant, turn, plant, turn... Hey this works pretty good."
 

ISki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I view it a little differently. I see only one turn, the parallel turn. I use the parallel turn for all skiing except moguls. Moguls get a modifed turn.
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
I see...

1. Pure carve. Just making RR tracks down the mountain.

2. Smeared carve - you start a carve and smear out the bottom in a controlled sideslip to scrub speed in steeps or bumps or line up a tight turn through a chokepoint or trees, and then go back into a carve. A less exaggerated version of this for short radius turns.

3. Hop turns for picking through rocks, tight chutes and steep technical areas where you don't want much speed because you don't have a runout.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is great, AltaGirl.
Now we're getting lots of types of turns.
Anyone else with descriptions of favorite turn types?
 

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