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2nd boot, should I get pro machines?

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have the ProMachines in the 95 flex and I did not have any trouble get enough forward flex on them or finding a good stance. I teach skiing at Winter Park, and used them to pass my Level 2 exam. Just curious at your size, why you want the 115 flex? I'm 5'6", 130 and have found the 95 give me plenty of boot to carve or ski bumps and trees in.
Eh idk I guess I’d rather over shoot then undershoot with things in life and have the flex for if I want or need it then wish I had it. I would probably be fine with 95 but I’ve heard such good things about the 115 model specifically and the materials it’s used with that I think I’d be fine. I have 115 touring boots and they don’t feel too stiff to me, at least after breaking them in a few times they’re starting to feel great
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks for the info!! In my 24.5’s, my right foot really is smashed in the toe box. A little nervous to size down but think I might be ok??
FWIW, I had to do my own "work" on the liner to get it to be skiable with my tighter fit.
You should do a proper shell check to determine if its the shell or the liner that is making it tight.
I only need room in the right big toe area, it was the liner not the shell. I ended up heating a spoon and 'working' the area on the inside of the first met area to get the liner to stretch/break down faster in this area only. You should note that I am still wearing knee high nylons in this boot after 25+ days. If you are not willing to go thru this process or understand how the liner/boot/ fit of your foot works, then you should probably not try to cram your foot into a too small boot. That could lead to nerve issues (metatarsalgia) etc.

Since you will be in Tahoe and Mammoth I don't know why you wouldn't be able to find this boot and work with one of the many reputable fitters in the area. Who may tell you, this is not your boot. If you were in Mammoth you could demo boots before you buy at Footloose.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
FWIW, I had to do my own "work" on the liner to get it to be skiable with my tighter fit.
You should do a proper shell check to determine if its the shell or the liner that is making it tight.
I only need room in the right big toe area, it was the liner not the shell. I ended up heating a spoon and 'working' the area on the inside of the first met area to get the liner to stretch/break down faster in this area only. You should note that I am still wearing knee high nylons in this boot after 25+ days. If you are not willing to go thru this process or understand how the liner/boot/ fit of your foot works, then you should probably not try to cram your foot into a too small boot. That could lead to nerve issues (metatarsalgia) etc.

Since you will be in Tahoe and Mammoth I don't know why you wouldn't be able to find this boot and work with one of the many reputable fitters in the area. Who may tell you, this is not your boot. If you were in Mammoth you could demo boots before you buy at Footloose.
I doubt for the online prices , plus I don’t want to spend time going store to store while on the trip searching for it… it’s my right big toe as well, maybe 2-3 of them that really feel jammed in 24.5’s. Still usable but am unsure if even with molding if a 23.5 would fit the right foot… may go to a local shop and try some other brands 23.5’s. My right foot sits right at the 25 measurement when the fitter used the measurement scale. Do you know where your right foot sits on that?
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I doubt for the online prices , plus I don’t want to spend time going store to store while on the trip searching for it…
Then you should just order it an take your chances.

Most stores have the Promachine 95. I think you think the 115 is magic. Its not. I tried the 95 for fit, and own the 115. The fit is the same. Again there are places in tahoe and mammoth that would let you demo the 95 or 105 if they didn't have the 115. Then you could decide if you really even want the 115.
FWIW the 105 and the 115 both have the cork liner.
And you can order the cork liner directly from Nordica on line....

Do you know where your right foot sits on that?
I have several footbeds I can use in my boots and those make a huge difference with the fit. I can not tell you where your feet and mine will end up in the boot based on measurement, there are so many other variables.

I understand if you are in OHIO that you are limited to stores. But you are coming out west where there are plenty of shops that carry a lot of inventory with pretty good fitters. I would at least try to spend some time getting an assessment and not get stuck on a particular boot or flex or $$$ amount. I would rather buy a boot for $$$ then "3 boots for less" that didn't work.
 
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Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Then you should just order it an take your chances.

Most stores have the Promachine 95. I think you think the 115 is magic. Its not. I tried the 95 for fit, and own the 115. The fit is the same. Again there are places in tahoe and mammoth that would let you demo the 95 or 105 if they didn't have the 115. Then you could decide if you really even want the 115.
FWIW the 105 and the 115 both have the cork liner.
And you can order the cork liner directly from Nordica on line....


I have several footbeds I can use in my boots and those make a huge difference with the fit. I can not tell you where your feet and mine will end up in the boot based on measurement, there are so many other variables.

I understand if you are in OHIO that you are limited to stores. But you are coming out west where there are plenty of shops that carry a lot of inventory with pretty good fitters. I would at least try to spend some time getting an assessment and not get stuck on a particular boot or flex or $$$ amount. I would rather buy a boot for $$$ then "3 boots for less" that didn't work.
I’m a penny pincher so I save every instance I can. I’ve never in my life went to a retail store that had close to online prices… the 115’s are only 439 so pretty cheap, don’t see why I wouldn’t want 115 over lesser flex boots especially if the point of getting the promachines is top performance . I understand what you mean about wasted money if boots are too small. So hoping they wouldn’t be. And I meant where your foot sits on the measurement board I.e mine is just at the 25 line on it
 
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WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
And I meant where your foot sits on the measurement board I.e mine is just at the 25 line on it
Doesn't matter what the brannock device says, when your foot is in the boot and properly supported it will be a different measurement...... if you measure my footbeds they are much shorter than my flat foot barefoot on the brannock. If that makes sense?
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Doesn't matter what the brannock device says, when your foot is in the boot and properly supported it will be a different measurement...... if you measure my footbeds they are much shorter than my flat foot barefoot on the brannock. If that makes sense?
Eh I’m not sure what you mean by supported? Since they all come stock with the same footbed, which seems pretty flat. I could see foot swelling and how you’re skiing that day be determining factors, but idk. Seems like hearing people’s exact foot lengths otherwise what’s the point of knowing them would be helpful since that’s our only thing to go off of. Unless you add in adjustments rendering stock footbed/liner not a factor
 

edelweissmaedl

Angel Diva
Eh I’m not sure what you mean by supported? Since they all come stock with the same footbed, which seems pretty flat. I could see foot swelling and how you’re skiing that day be determining factors, but idk. Seems like hearing people’s exact foot lengths otherwise what’s the point of knowing them would be helpful since that’s our only thing to go off of. Unless you add in adjustments rendering stock footbed/liner not a factor
Supported by a custom footbed. When your arch is held up by the footbed your foot is shorter than without. I would assume that most of the Diva’s here that have been encouraging you to see a boot fitter have either a custom or semi-custom footbed. The stock footbed is just there to make the boot easier to slip into for the initial dry foot. Then it gets thrown away for at least a super feet insole or better ideally.

I think most reputable boot fitters offer custom footbed service. If you order those boots online, you could still have custom footbeds made for them at Footloose or another shop on your Tahoe trip for example.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Supported by a custom footbed. When your arch is held up by the footbed your foot is shorter than without. I would assume that most of the Diva’s here that have been encouraging you to see a boot fitter have either a custom or semi-custom footbed. The stock footbed is just there to make the boot easier to slip into for the initial dry foot. Then it gets thrown away for at least a super feet insole or better ideally.

I think most reputable boot fitters offer custom footbed service. If you order those boots online, you could still have custom footbeds made for them at Footloose or another shop on your Tahoe trip for example.
Supported by a custom footbed. When your arch is held up by the footbed your foot is shorter than without. I would assume that most of the Diva’s here that have been encouraging you to see a boot fitter have either a custom or semi-custom footbed. The stock footbed is just there to make the boot easier to slip into for the initial dry foot. Then it gets thrown away for at least a super feet insole or better ideally.

I think most reputable boot fitters offer custom footbed service. If you order those boots online, you could still have custom footbeds made for them at Footloose or another shop on your Tahoe trip for example.
Just not sure if custom footbed is necessary if they fit right. I don’t have them in my work or working out or hiking shoes, but are they good for skiing because they make your foot more secure or something?
 

edelweissmaedl

Angel Diva
Just not sure if custom footbed is necessary if they fit right. I don’t have them in my work or working out or hiking shoes, but are they good for skiing because they make your foot more secure or something?
You don't want your foot to pronate in a ski boot like you would in a casual shoe. This keeps the foot more stable. With that said not everyone adds an insole in.

I was just trying to explain how that is going to play into foot length. ie. the way my foot fills up my boot is going to be directly affected by my custom insole, which then can't be compared apples to apples length or height/volume wise to you if you are only using the stock footbed even if our feet measure the same length out of the boot to start.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You don't want your foot to pronate in a ski boot like you would in a casual shoe. This keeps the foot more stable. With that said not everyone adds an insole in.

I was just trying to explain how that is going to play into foot length. ie. the way my foot fills up my boot is going to be directly affected by my custom insole, which then can't be compared apples to apples length or height/volume wise to you if you are only using the stock footbed even if our feet measure the same length out of the boot to start.
Okay I see makes sense thanks for the info! So many decisions and things involved in ski gear. Wish I could try every boot I want to own out on the hill before deciding which to get
 

scandium

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just not sure if custom footbed is necessary if they fit right. I don’t have them in my work or working out or hiking shoes, but are they good for skiing because they make your foot more secure or something?
Your work, working out and hiking shoes usually have MUCH more 'wiggle room' - for foot swelling, socks, etc. Ski boots don't. Most shoes have some flexibility in the fabric. Ski boots don't. So yes, different applications need (or would highly suggest) different approaches.

My non-bootfitter approach is that you don't want unintended big changes in shape in your ski boot of your foot as that will lead to hotspots and pain when skiing, plus possibly making your skiing more difficult if you have a more performance fit.
If you have any flexibility in your foot the arch can collapse, the foot can splay etc - and all you need to do to see that is look at how the foot changes when you change the weight distribution even with the ball and heel flat on the ground (for me, as I bring my weight more forward I pronate and my arch flattens which splays out the ball of my foot). This is where the foot bed that supports the arch helps.
Note that this pronation is happening in a rigid, plastic shell that can't move at all with your foot - so you can imagine that you instead would be pushing on the ski boot unintentionally - which can then transmit a movement to the skis that you don't want!

Custom vs. non custom is less important than having some support!
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just chiming in that taking the time to get a real performance fit from a qualified bootfitter made so much difference - and it was not just in my skiing (though that too) but my confidence! My skis were finally responding whereas in my too big boots before, I would have to scrunch up my toes to get any semblance of control. I didn't even realize how bad it was until my instructor pointed out during drills that my ski was not really responding, even though I was trying to do as instructed.

I am a 24.5 on brannock, close to 25 on one foot, but I'm in a 23.5 Atomic Hawx Ultra (low volume). I was shell measured to ensure a performance fit and though my fitter tried medium volume at first, we settled on low volume with punches on the sides for my rather big bunions because my heel was not as secure in medium volume. I also have custom inserts that really help with my low arches though I dislike inserts with any form of arch support in my other shoes!

___​

I think the point everyone here is trying to make: there is no one right boot. You can read all the reviews in the world, but there are no two same feet (even on the same body!) and in a activity that so heavily relies on your feet and legs to properly control you while you are actively sliding down a slope, having a good fit is really really important - for enjoyment, confidence and safety.

There are videos online telling you how to evaluate a boot yourself, and that's a start if you insist on doing it yourself, but a qualified bootfitter will have more knowledge, insight and more importantly will look at your foot, see how you flex, be able to address hotspots instead of you having to compromise on fit, etc All of these things will be unique to your own feet. These are things we can't know or advise on.

And finding that qualified bootfitter can be a trial in itself, so I really sympathize with you.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Thanks for the info!! In my 24.5’s, my right foot really is smashed in the toe box. A little nervous to size down but think I might be ok??
Without a boot fitter to make the needed adjustments, I don't recommend sizing down. I did size down from a 25 to a 24 to a 23, but I worked with boot fitters along the way. @SnowHot and her husband had to do a lot of work on my boots to get them to fit as well as they do. I noticed that you don't have custom footbeds or plan to get any. A custom footbed is fitted to your foot, supports the arch and instep, and effectively shortens the length of the foot as compared to a flat footbed. If you do decide to get custom footbeds, they will last a REALLY long time and transfer boot to boot in the future. Without them, you may not be able to get into the smaller boot.
I’m a penny pincher so I save every instance I can. I’ve never in my life went to a retail store that had close to online prices… the 115’s are only 439 so pretty cheap, don’t see why I wouldn’t want 115 over lesser flex boots especially if the point of getting the promachines is top performance . I understand what you mean about wasted money if boots are too small. So hoping they wouldn’t be. And I meant where your foot sits on the measurement board I.e mine is just at the 25 line on it
If a boot is too stiff for you to flex it, it will keep you from progressing as a skier. It's not a simple function of higher flex number is a better boot. Yes, more advanced boots often have better buckles, liners, etc.; but if you can't flex it properly, it's no better than a piece of junk.

@WaterGirl is right ... since you will be in Tahoe and Mammoth, there are some really good boot fitters.
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Rachel614 If you are absolutely set on doing it yourself, try not to expect anything more than a recreational fit, akin to finding the best fitting rental boot, since it would be without the customization. This youtube video talks about how to choose boots if you are buying from a ski swap, which is similar to your situation from the perspective that you are going to take the boot as-is.

 
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Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Your work, working out and hiking shoes usually have MUCH more 'wiggle room' - for foot swelling, socks, etc. Ski boots don't. Most shoes have some flexibility in the fabric. Ski boots don't. So yes, different applications need (or would highly suggest) different approaches.

My non-bootfitter approach is that you don't want unintended big changes in shape in your ski boot of your foot as that will lead to hotspots and pain when skiing, plus possibly making your skiing more difficult if you have a more performance fit.
If you have any flexibility in your foot the arch can collapse, the foot can splay etc - and all you need to do to see that is look at how the foot changes when you change the weight distribution even with the ball and heel flat on the ground (for me, as I bring my weight more forward I pronate and my arch flattens which splays out the ball of my foot). This is where the foot bed that supports the arch helps.
Note that this pronation is happening in a rigid, plastic shell that can't move at all with your foot - so you can imagine that you instead would be pushing on the ski boot unintentionally - which can then transmit a movement to the skis that you don't want!

Custom vs. non custom is less important than having some support!
Yes makes sense, I will have to try some insoles out at some point. Thanks for the insight!!
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Without a boot fitter to make the needed adjustments, I don't recommend sizing down. I did size down from a 25 to a 24 to a 23, but I worked with boot fitters along the way. @SnowHot and her husband had to do a lot of work on my boots to get them to fit as well as they do. I noticed that you don't have custom footbeds or plan to get any. A custom footbed is fitted to your foot, supports the arch and instep, and effectively shortens the length of the foot as compared to a flat footbed. If you do decide to get custom footbeds, they will last a REALLY long time and transfer boot to boot in the future. Without them, you may not be able to get into the smaller boot.

If a boot is too stiff for you to flex it, it will keep you from progressing as a skier. It's not a simple function of higher flex number is a better boot. Yes, more advanced boots often have better buckles, liners, etc.; but if you can't flex it properly, it's no better than a piece of junk.

@WaterGirl is right ... since you will be in Tahoe and Mammoth, there are some really good boot fitters.
I’m definently down to get some custom inserts, just want to make sure I pick the right boot first. If I had went with the first boot recommended to me by a boot fitter I don’t think I would be happy with the boot chosen nor price paid for it (they reccomended boring alpha pros). But custom foot liners that can be transferred from boot to boot id be interested in paying for. And yes I realize the increased flex rating doesnt mean better performance, but I noticed when I finally started to gain confidence in my current 115 flex skis how beneficial having that support is when carving. Still tempted to try owning a lesser flex ski boot to try out but right now have my mind set on the 115 pro machines
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Rachel614 If you are absolutely set on doing it yourself, try not to expect anything more than a recreational fit, akin to finding the best fitting rental boot, since it would be without the customization. This youtube video talks about how to choose boots if you are buying from a ski swap, which is similar to your situation from the perspective that you are going to take the boot as-is.

How am I going for a recreational fit when I have tried on a dozen boots and had 3 boot fitters measure my feet as well as teach me how to shell test in person. That video is redundant and stating the obvious. I prefer to find the right boot by going for those with the descriptions and reviews that perfectly match my needs as well as trial and error. Just like my running shoes. Obviously there are some things such as custom foot beds and possibly heat molding that I’m sure I could benefit from, but just because I am buying the boots online and not from a person (who does not actually know my needs, how I ski, or how things feel for me) doesn’t mean that they wont be perfect for me and akin to buying from a ski swap. Everyone has to buy ski boots prior to customization…
@Rachel614 If you are absolutely set on doing it yourself, try not to expect anything more than a recreational fit, akin to finding the best fitting rental boot, since it would be without the customization. This youtube video talks about how to choose boots if you are buying from a ski swap, which is similar to your situation from the perspective that you are going to take the boot as-is.

@Rachel614 If you are absolutely set on doing it yourself, try not to expect anything more than a recreational fit, akin to finding the best fitting rental boot, since it would be without the customization. This youtube video talks about how to choose boots if you are buying from a ski swap, which is similar to your situation from the perspective that you are going to take the boot as-is.

[How am I going for a recreational fit when I have tried on a dozen boots and had 3 boot fitters measure my feet as well as teach me how to shell test in person. That video is redundant and stating the obvious. I prefer to find the right boot by going for those with the descriptions and reviews that perfectly match my needs as well as trial and error. Just like my running shoes. Obviously there are some things such as custom foot beds and possibly heat molding that I’m sure I could benefit from, but just because I am buying the boots online and not from a person (who does not actually know my needs, how I ski, or how things feel for me) doesn’t mean that they wont be perfect for me and akin to buying from a ski swap. Everyone has to buy ski boots prior to customization…

@Rachel614 If you are absolutely set on doing it yourself, try not to expect anything more than a recreational fit, akin to finding the best fitting rental boot, since it would be without the customization. This youtube video talks about how to choose boots if you are buying from a ski swap, which is similar to your situation from the perspective that you are going to take the boot as-is.

How am I going for a recreational fit when I have tried on a dozen boots and had 3 boot fitters measure my feet, as well as having bought boots on a whim without trying them on and them work perfectly, no hot spots or discomfort right out of the box skiing all day at 115 flex. That video is redundant and if anything comfirms my decision of buying online verses a person who does not know my needs, skiing style, or how boots feel to me skiing. (The guy in the video says he himself buys online). Now getting customization via heat molding and insoles is another story and something I’m interested in doing. I would rather learn my favorite boots by owning a variety who’s descriptions and reviews fit my needs verses being told what to buy by someone who’s knowledge and experience in a variety of boots may be limited as well as what they have in stock, as well as them being motivated on making a sale. Plus the money saved by buying online to put towards insoles and other boots or skis is a no brainer
 

lisamamot

Angel Diva
How am I going for a recreational fit when I have tried on a dozen boots and had 3 boot fitters measure my feet, as well as having bought boots on a whim without trying them on and them work perfectly, no hot spots or discomfort right out of the box skiing all day at 115 flex.
A performance fit generally requires adjustments.

I am in the Nordica ProMachine 115 24.5, previously in the Promachine 95 25.5. My street shoes are primarily 9.5M and my right foot measures over a 25, left just at 25. My 25.5 felt perfect right out of the box too and I loved them...until they packed and I was using buckles to attempt a snugger fit. I could still wear a 25.5 for a comfort fit, but would need an after market liner in my old pair as I was moving too much.

In the 24.5, my right big toe had to be blown out and both boot boards shaved to provide a bit more space on top of my foot, but that was it.
 

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