VT or bust

[newboots]

I want to amend my post above and say that I appreciate the state wide zoning in Act 250 because it keeps our state looking beautiful!

I'm glad you added that! When Act 250 was passed, lo these many years ago, there was very little zoning at all outside of the cities. Tourism was, as it is today, a huge draw, and in addition to strictly environmental concerns, Act 250 addressed many issues that affect the beauty of the state. No reason it shouldn't need amending after all these years. In the 70s, there wasn't really development pressure except around Burlington. It was so much more rural!

Now that I'm living elsewhere, I am struck daily in the contrast in beauty. There are many beautiful places here - I live right near the Hudson River, there are a couple of castles and historic mansions nearby, and the cliffs rise very high on both sides of the river. But everywhere there are billboards, litter, and abandoned industrial relics. I always thought the billboard ban made a really positive change in Vermont. But I am so biased!

There are some gorgeous places here, but they are very expensive! Rhinebeck comes to mind, with its rolling hills and horse farms.

 

[Luvs2ski]

I wish I could live in VT. I live in Massachusetts because of my job. I have nothing in common here with anyone. Everyone hates snow here and I love it. Everyone has bald tires in Massachusetts and then complains if we get a dusting of snow. I am the only one who shows up to work when it snows. Nobody here knows how to drive in it.

Right there with you! I live in MA, but in normal times (pre COVID), I spend winter weekends in VT; it is my happy place! I would love to move there, someday ...For now, I am one of the rare peeps here in MA that loves snow & wishes we had more; cannot understand those that hate winter ...oh wait, yes I do, they don’t ski, LOL!

 

[MissySki]

Right there with you! I live in MA, but in normal times (pre COVID), I spend winter weekends in VT; it is my happy place! I would love to move there, someday ...For now, I am one of the rare peeps here in MA that loves snow & wishes we had more; cannot understand those that hate winter ...oh wait, yes I do, they don’t ski, LOL!

There are more skiers in MA than it seems at times I assure you. I live in central MA but spend most winter weekends in ME myself. Sunday River is my Happy Place, and there are a TON of MA skiers there.

 

[Luvs2ski]

There are more skiers in MA than it seems at times I assure you. I live in central MA but spend most winter weekends in ME myself. Sunday River is my Happy Place, and there are a TON of MA skiers there.

True..I guess most of us MA skiers do head outta here towards the mountains; ME & NH definitely see more MA skiers than VT does. Although, due to the pandemic & not being able to frequent VT as much this season, I’ve given the Berkshires a try ...Jiminy Peak is a lot of fun (I am also in Central MA)!!

 

[MissySki]

https://mountaintimes.info/killingt...6LsCw7TlpW3nK4Zu5EntakvExuktuwC2R5zWoCudbMuEg

Seems real estate demand is still red hot up north.

 

[newboots]

I’m 80 miles north of NYC and on the MetroNorth. Sky-high here, also. I’m going to keep renting for awhile.

 

[snowski/swimmouse]

That makes me think of my godmother, daughter of an Irish immigrant with 9 children who helped build the Kensington dam above Valhalla (above White Plains). (Remember there were signs that said "No Irish need apply" unless the job was too dangerous for others) Her modest three bedroom home overlooked the lake above the dam in the winter when there were no leaves. I remember it fondly...

 

[MissySki]

@lisamamot shared this clip with me yesterday and it is sooooooo funny, at least for anyone who has been dealing with the real estate market right now. It’s so spot on even though it obviously exaggerates things a lot. It’s waaaaay too relatable to me after having closed on my ski condo so recently, I can verify a lot of it haha. I sent it over to my lovely realtors who got a big kick out of it too. Though I got frustrated (a lot) at times with the whole process, in the end I do really appreciate the realtors I worked with who put up with me for the last 9 months. Persistence is key and a good realtor is a must right now. Enjoy!

https://fb.watch/5jD14yI5wE/

 

[ski diva]

That's pretty much right on right now.

There's a 1,200 square foot fishing shack near me that's currently for sale for $995,000. Nothing special about it at all, except it's on a lake. The listing pretty much says it's a tear-down: "Enjoy the present three-bedroom, two-bath cottage for a lifetime of fun or use it temporarily as you design and build your dream home." Crazy, right?

 

[Abbi]

That's pretty much right on right now.

There's a 1,200 square foot fishing shack near me that's currently for sale for $995,000. Nothing special about it at all, except it's on a lake. The listing pretty much says it's a tear-down: "Enjoy the present three-bedroom, two-bath cottage for a lifetime of fun or use it temporarily as you design and build your dream home." Crazy, right?

It will be interesting to see the real estate market a few years down the road. Such as whether or not people will be able to keep up or end up underwater on these mortgages. The housing market here in Rhode Island is also utterly insane. One of my Pilates clients showed 100 people through a house in two days! And got 35 offers all over asking price! She said still felt terrible, although glad to sell a house, because 34 people were not going to get the house!

 

[Skivt2]

Well.....I figured I should update you all. We found a coveted year round rental in Plymouth VT. 13 minutes to the Skyship. 18 minutes to Bear. So we should be set until my husband has his RN license and gets a job he wants to stay at. That should be 2-3 years. Then hopefully, things will have calmed down a bit with prices and building materials so we can buy or build a home near Killington. since Killington is our mental/emotional home now. all our friends are here and we are already part of the community so we don’t want to pull up roots and go elsewhere even in VT.

Our landlord sold our condo in 6 days for well over 165k sight unseen for cash even though it needed everything done to it. It’s only 550 square feet, does not have its own entrance, has no closet space etc etc. crazy that I could have bought an identical one next door or across the hallway for 40k in one case or 45k in the other case only three years ago!! I have to believe people are going to lose their shirts. The condo is at the base of Pico. They don’t open until Christmas, are not open Tuesday/Wednesday and have closed before March 15th twice in the past 5 years. I would expect the folks buying our place will have to spend 30-50k to redo the kitchen inc replacing the original 1987 appliances, paint, carpet and re-furnish so they will be in it for 200-220k. There is no way in gods green earth they would ever get that back. That’s 400% what it was worth 3 years ago. Maybe they have money to burn but if I had cash to throw away like that I would not be buying at the base of Pico.

Anyhow, it all worked out for me. I got a place to rent double the size of our condo close to the mountain for the same price as we were paying. We do have to suck it up and drive to the mountain. I had driving in snow but it’s not for lack of good vehicles/good tires. We have a Subaru and another AWD truck and both have brand new Nokian tires. GR3’s in the Subaru and Hakkaplitas on the truck. I know what I’m doing driving in the snow. I just hate it. But it’s 13 minutes of good paved main roads to the Skyship so I’ll have to build a bridge and get over it if I want to get my 6th 100 club hat. Lol

 

[MissySki]

Well.....I figured I should update you all. We found a coveted year round rental in Plymouth VT. 13 minutes to the Skyship. 18 minutes to Bear. So we should be set until my husband has his RN license and gets a job he wants to stay at. That should be 2-3 years. Then hopefully, things will have calmed down a bit with prices and building materials so we can buy or build a home near Killington. since Killington is our mental/emotional home now. all our friends are here and we are already part of the community so we don’t want to pull up roots and go elsewhere even in VT.

Our landlord sold our condo in 6 days for well over 165k sight unseen for cash even though it needed everything done to it. It’s only 550 square feet, does not have its own entrance, has no closet space etc etc. crazy that I could have bought an identical one next door or across the hallway for 40k in one case or 45k in the other case only three years ago!! I have to believe people are going to lose their shirts. The condo is at the base of Pico. They don’t open until Christmas, are not open Tuesday/Wednesday and have closed before March 15th twice in the past 5 years. I would expect the folks buying our place will have to spend 30-50k to redo the kitchen inc replacing the original 1987 appliances, paint, carpet and re-furnish so they will be in it for 200-220k. There is no way in gods green earth they would ever get that back. That’s 400% what it was worth 3 years ago. Maybe they have money to burn but if I had cash to throw away like that I would not be buying at the base of Pico.

Anyhow, it all worked out for me. I got a place to rent double the size of our condo close to the mountain for the same price as we were paying. We do have to suck it up and drive to the mountain. I had driving in snow but it’s not for lack of good vehicles/good tires. We have a Subaru and another AWD truck and both have brand new Nokian tires. GR3’s in the Subaru and Hakkaplitas on the truck. I know what I’m doing driving in the snow. I just hate it. But it’s 13 minutes of good paved main roads to the Skyship so I’ll have to build a bridge and get over it if I want to get my 6th 100 club hat. Lol

That's great congratulations, yay for things working out!

It will be so interesting to see what happens in the future with housing everywhere! I find it fascinating to follow. I assume there will surely be a correction of prices at some point (though it's not going back to where it started), but really that shouldn't be an issue for most people. i.e. unless you're buying as a short term investment, which isn't usually smart in real estate in general and surely not in the current market being at an all time high. Who knows what people's motivation and plans are though. We are in pretty unprecedented times all around.

 

[Iwannaski]

I live in the midwest. Not suburban Chicago. Suburban Milwaukee. Pros: Walkable, amazing restaurants, good schools. but...y'all, this is not an east coast city. A house in my neighborhood that is about 2000 sqft just sold for what I've described as East Coast pricing. I don't even know what's going on with real estate, but it does make me worry about a bubble.

 

[ski diva]

Well.....I figured I should update you all. We found a coveted year round rental in Plymouth VT. 13 minutes to the Skyship. 18 minutes to Bear. So we should be set until my husband has his RN license and gets a job he wants to stay at. That should be 2-3 years. Then hopefully, things will have calmed down a bit with prices and building materials so we can buy or build a home near Killington. since Killington is our mental/emotional home now. all our friends are here and we are already part of the community so we don’t want to pull up roots and go elsewhere even in VT.

Our landlord sold our condo in 6 days for well over 165k sight unseen for cash even though it needed everything done to it. It’s only 550 square feet, does not have its own entrance, has no closet space etc etc. crazy that I could have bought an identical one next door or across the hallway for 40k in one case or 45k in the other case only three years ago!! I have to believe people are going to lose their shirts. The condo is at the base of Pico. They don’t open until Christmas, are not open Tuesday/Wednesday and have closed before March 15th twice in the past 5 years. I would expect the folks buying our place will have to spend 30-50k to redo the kitchen inc replacing the original 1987 appliances, paint, carpet and re-furnish so they will be in it for 200-220k. There is no way in gods green earth they would ever get that back. That’s 400% what it was worth 3 years ago. Maybe they have money to burn but if I had cash to throw away like that I would not be buying at the base of Pico.

Anyhow, it all worked out for me. I got a place to rent double the size of our condo close to the mountain for the same price as we were paying. We do have to suck it up and drive to the mountain. I had driving in snow but it’s not for lack of good vehicles/good tires. We have a Subaru and another AWD truck and both have brand new Nokian tires. GR3’s in the Subaru and Hakkaplitas on the truck. I know what I’m doing driving in the snow. I just hate it. But it’s 13 minutes of good paved main roads to the Skyship so I’ll have to build a bridge and get over it if I want to get my 6th 100 club hat. Lol

I live in Plymouth and drive everywhere in every kind of weather. You won't have a problem.

 

[MissySki]

I live in the midwest. Not suburban Chicago. Suburban Milwaukee. Pros: Walkable, amazing restaurants, good schools. but...y'all, this is not an east coast city. A house in my neighborhood that is about 2000 sqft just sold for what I've described as East Coast pricing. I don't even know what's going on with real estate, but it does make me worry about a bubble.

I’m only posting this particular article because it’s very recent, but this is the gist of what I’ve been reading and also hearing locally for awhile now on why it isn’t a bubble. Or at least not with the dire consequences we all think of like the housing collapse of the earlier 2000s. Where I bought in Maine recently, majority of the transactions have been full cash for awhile now. That further indicates to me that it’s a very different scenario than previously of bad lending practices, and much more of a demand outpacing supply issue playing out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-expect-another-housing-bubble-heres-why/amp/

 

[Skivt2]

Definitely not like before. This bubble may turn out to be a simply supply vs demand issue. Prices have been driven up by a number of factors that may be temporary. Low interest rates, Low inventory, high building costs due to temporary shortages in materials, millennials jumping in the market (they are a baby boom generation), the remote work situation, etc. A moratorium on evictions and foreclosures has been in place for a year and will end.

It’s possible that some of these factors may disappear in the near future (2-3) years. In particular we know that boomers may be sizing down or sadly passing away if they are early boomers starting to reach 80 years old. We know that the generation behind the millennials is much smaller and birth rates are decreasing. We know that covid caused folks not to want to sell at the same time a whole lot of people wanted to buy a bigger place in a more rural area. And we know interest rates and inflation are likely to rise.

In addition, there was a lot of money to be made in Short Term rentals particularly for the early owners that jumped in and this year due to Covid since air travel was not a good idea for most people. But the STR exuberance May turn to dismay for investors that paid too much if demand slacks off which I believe it will. I do not believe skier visits are growing much. I don’t believe lots of people are coming to the sport and certainly not enough to replace those leaving it due to age. So I expect to see too much supply for demand at the higher prices in this space soon (again 2-3 years). I expect peer pressure will significant decrease remote work over time as being in person with the boss often translates into better opportunities for raises and promotions.

Each one of these may not lower prices but taken in total I think they will. For those buying now they may very well own more than they can sell for. That may not be an issue for a cash buyer but I’m sure that they are not going to want to lose money. And others will need to sell for the normal reasons. Investors in STR’s in particular may not be able to cover expenses without appropriate demand.

We shall see if I am right. I certainly hope I am. Time will tell. But I would not buy anything right now.

 

[SallyCat]

I live in Plymouth and drive everywhere in every kind of weather. You won't have a problem.

Same, though I'm 20 min. from Plymouth. My car's a front-wheel drive with about half an inch of ground clearance. I've driven on the interstate when only one wheel-width of pavement was visible, through unplowed parking lots, and over snow-packed roads all over the place; never had a problem.

Weirdly, my neighborhood has had a number of reasonably-priced houses and condos on the market this year. A couple of condos went for maybe 5k over what I paid for mine three years ago, and a move-in-ready house sold for just over 200k, I think. It's especially puzzling because housing in West Windsor has always been insanely expensive except in our little part of the mountain, so I figured people would start looking over here and pushing prices up, but it didn't seem to happen. <Shrug.>. Fine with me, I like my taxes just the way they are. :-)

 

[Christy]

And there are still places that are affordable and want new people so badly they are offering incentives to people who move there. Even Hawaii has a program for professional workers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/30/realestate/bentonville-arkansas-moving-incentive.html

 

[Iwannaski]

All good insights. The fact is where we live will always be desirable... or so I think, that’s why I bought here in 2007! ;)

And, we don’t plan to move for at least 13ish years, so bubbles will happen/pop/resolve.

Bonus, makes me feel a little better about spending on my new ski habit. Maybe I’ll buy some bibs.

 

[MissySki]

We shall see if I am right. I certainly hope I am. Time will tell. But I would not buy anything right now.

I bought for the first time in 2008 and found it really anxiety inducing trying to figure out if it was a good idea in that market and whether things had reached the bottom at that point (it hadn't). I just didn't know what I didn't know, and also wrongly assumed that things would change in a quicker manner than they actually do (usually). In the end, everything worked out fine with purchasing. Then I bought in 2017 and the market in MA and RI sucked then too, super low inventory, tons of people at every open house, bidding wars, lost out on multiple properties etc. It was so frustrating and I feared we'd never find a place. However, we then found our current property, scooped it up as soon as it came up, and absolutely love it here. The value has shot up immensely, though we aren't selling because we have no reason to and probably couldn't find anywhere else to go! Now I bought a second home in 2021 and it was the most challenging market I've been involved with for so many reasons.. it was 9 months of bidding on, constantly watching for, and losing out on properties I'd start to get attached to. I'm really relieved to be out of it now, and unconcerned about the market in the next say 10 years or so most likely because I don't plan to sell or rent and it certainly wasn't bought as a short term investment. Frankly, it wasn't bought as an investment as all, it was bought because the time was right for me personally and I am so sick of paying a ton of money to someone else for 6 month seasonal rentals. I wanted to have a stake in the community I love so much and a little piece of it to call my own.

I think once you go through the process overall a few times you realize that there is never any predicting what's going to happen in the market. In my mind it's better to just concern yourself with your own circumstances and what makes sense for you versus the market as a whole which will likely never go the way you imagine in a certain period of time. Just like the stock market which literally always seems to do the exact opposite of what I think it will for stocks I follow closely. Good thing I don't aspire to being a day trader lol.