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A-Basin cutting back on season pass sales

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
Al says they've already sold almost 40% of their allotted A-Basin passes for 21-22. It worked on me; locked in A-Basin passes for me & DH for next year.
http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2021/03/season-passes.html

I like the last paragraph and I have to say that in light of the Epic announcement, I mostly agree with this sentiment:
"Our neighbors have announced a plan to drastically cut season pass prices in an effort to sell more passes. We are pricing and limiting our season pass inventory in order to sell fewer passes. Depending on what factors are important to your season pass purchase (price, the mountain itself, the skiing experience, the culture, the vibe, etc), your choices for purchase have never been more clear."

That said, we're also getting the cheapest Epic pass (Keystone only), since those are the 2 resorts the bus goes to from our condo. :smile: And to be clear, I'd buy the A-Basin pass whether the bus went there or not. ;)
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Al's comments are completely transparent in terms of what ABasin is doing for season pass sales and keeping ticket sales online next season. Makes complete sense to me given that Powder Mountain has used that as a business strategy ever since the current owners took over. Both ski areas serve local markets. PowMow even has special discounts for people who live in the same county. If travelers have to plan more in advance, so be it.

The price is going up on April 15 for the full season pass. Supply and demand . . .

March 29, 2021, Arapahoe Basin blog
Season Passes
http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2021/03/season-passes.html
" . . .
For this COVID season we limited season pass sales and sold out of passes in November. For the 2021-22 season we are actually going to sell 10% fewer unrestricted passes than we did during the COVID season. We announced this change and started selling season passes March 12. As of today, we have sold 36% of our unrestricted season pass inventory. Passes are selling at a much faster rate than I expected. On April 16 we plan on raising the price of an “Adult Unrestricted Season Pass” from $519 to $599. The renewal rate for 2020-21 Season Pass holders is valid only thru April 15 or while supplies last.

I have very high confidence that we are going to sell out of the unrestricted passes. I just don’t know when that is going to happen. It is very possible that we sell out before the April 16 price increase. This post may seem like a pushy sales pitch. That is not the intention. It is a transparent effort is to let you know that unrestricted pass sales are limited and we are running out fast. If you want to buy an Arapahoe Basin unrestricted season pass, you should buy it now.
. . ."
 

vickie

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I understand ABasin used to -- even for the current season -- offer a mid-week pass. That appears to not be available for 21/22. That is generating some unhappiness.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Mt Baker limited season pass sales again this year. They did this last year, and sold out on December 15. This year they sold out today. They said they capped sales with the same number as last year.

20211004_210845.jpg
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
Nice post from Al the other day with how this is going:

tl;dr: It's been a weird few years, but they have been almost exactly as crowded as they want to be the last few years, which is about 60-65% as crowded as they were the last year on Epic.

As someone who skis A-Basin a lot, I can attest that A-Basin getting off the Epic pass and having 5/7 days on the Ikon pass has been one of the best things to happen in my Colorado life. The last few years on Epic were an absolute sh*tshow, and the last few years on Ikon have been wonderful. It definitely gets full on great weekend days, but not close to crowded enough to make the day a hassle.

Very cool to see they're going to offer some fall passes, but would also be nice to figure out ways to incentivize Ikon skiers to use more of their days in the fall. Early season has definitely been a bit of a ghost town (which I'm not really complaining about, but I imagine it would be nice for them to spread out Ikon visitation a little more).
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
Good (& long) interview with the A-Basin COO the other day (Al of Al's blog):

If you scroll down the page above the podcast "notes" themselves are also really good.

It doesn't super go into anything you don't already know if you're into A-Basin, but I enjoyed it a lot and they threw out some interesting numbers.
- Peak visitation with the Epic Pass was about 600k skier visits a year. They're on track for a bit over 400k this season, which Al still considers a covid season because Omicron kind of blew up midwinter holiday travel.
- He thinks A-Basin's sweet spot is something like 450-500k skier visits a year.
- Feb and March 2022 were their best financial months ever, despite having something like 65% of the skier visits they had during the last few years of the Epic pass.
- Part of the rationale for replacing Lenawee with a high speed 6-pack vs a 4-pack (happening this summer) was that the weight of a 6-pack will run better with the wind up there.
- They're limiting A-Basin season pass sales another 10% for next year. A-Basin is maybe the only place that's reducing skier visits while also increasing uphill capacity.
- Mentioned in passing while talking about removing the Ikon pass blackout days that Ikon skier visits on a holiday weekend would be maybe 1 or 1.5k, out of an ideal max capacity of about 4k skiers a day. It's hard to replace that many visits with increased window ticket sales, so instead they're removing the holiday blackouts and selling fewer window tickets on those days.

It's great to hear they're doing well with their new approach of quality over quantity, because I can't tell you what a refreshing break from the general megapass resort chaos A-Basin has been recently. I still ski mostly weekends, and while weekends are full, they're also totally fine and not an ordeal at all. The last few years on Epic were definitely an ordeal.
 

ilovepugs

Angel Diva
- Mentioned in passing while talking about removing the Ikon pass blackout days that Ikon skier visits on a holiday weekend would be maybe 1 or 1.5k, out of an ideal max capacity of about 4k skiers a day. It's hard to replace that many visits with increased window ticket sales, so instead they're removing the holiday blackouts and selling fewer window tickets on those days.

Interesting mention on the holiday blackouts and a nice concession to IKON Base pass holders.

I sure wish the season at Mad River Glen last longer because the lack of crowding on weekends is enchanting and refreshing as well.
 

Mudgirl630

Angel Diva
Now this is interesting.....A-Basin will reduce the number of season pass sales next season by 10% in hopes of creating a more "comfortable level" of skiers and riders each day.

Katherine Fuller, Communications Manager at A-Basin, had this to say about their decision to limit pass sales:

“A-Basin is bucking the traditional ski resort sales model of “sell as much access product as possible” and is reducing the number of unrestricted A-Basin passes by 10 percent. When they are sold out, they are sold out. Lift tickets will also continue to be limited and will only be sold online and in advance.

For us, it’s not complicated. We believe great skiing and riding should be about great skiing and riding. It should not be about standing in long lift lines all the time or struggling to find parking. It should not be about new snow getting completely skied off by noon. We are doing what we feel we need to do to protect the A-Basin experience.

Simply put, we recognize that keeping crowd sizes down and spreading people out will make the experience on our 1,428 acres better for everyone. Limiting pass and ticket sales this season for COVID-19 health and safety reasons showed us that we can be successful and have happier guests when we do that.”


Your thoughts?
Absolutely agree and so impressive to see the opposite of Vail Corp, "don't care about the guests as long as making a lot of $$$$$$" policy. :party:
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
Nice article on A-Basin and how it's going for them on the Ikon pass:

Some highlights:
- they get "over $10" per visit from the Ikon pass, which is triple what they got from Epic pass scans
- 40% fewer guests last season (compared to.... their last season on the Epic pass? not totally clear)
- Feb & March 2022 were their most profitable months ever

I really can't overstate how grateful I am that A-Basin in doing what they're doing, especially in light of the way things are going with crowds at so many other resorts. I am really not sure how I'd be approaching weekend-centric skiing in Summit County without A-Basin in the picture.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Nice article on A-Basin and how it's going for them on the Ikon pass:

Some highlights:
- they get "over $10" per visit from the Ikon pass, which is triple what they got from Epic pass scans
- 40% fewer guests last season (compared to.... their last season on the Epic pass? not totally clear)
- Feb & March 2022 were their most profitable months ever

I really can't overstate how grateful I am that A-Basin in doing what they're doing, especially in light of the way things are going with crowds at so many other resorts. I am really not sure how I'd be approaching weekend-centric skiing in Summit County without A-Basin in the picture.
I read that article earlier this week. I wish Snowbasin would take note.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Nice article on A-Basin and how it's going for them on the Ikon pass:

Some highlights:
- they get "over $10" per visit from the Ikon pass, which is triple what they got from Epic pass scans
- 40% fewer guests last season (compared to.... their last season on the Epic pass? not totally clear)
- Feb & March 2022 were their most profitable months ever

I really can't overstate how grateful I am that A-Basin in doing what they're doing, especially in light of the way things are going with crowds at so many other resorts. I am really not sure how I'd be approaching weekend-centric skiing in Summit County without A-Basin in the picture.
Interesting to see the CCC number in the article.

" . . .
The quest to hit A-Basin’s visitation sweet spot starts with a weekly meeting. Every Tuesday, a small group of managers convenes to determine that week’s lift ticket strategy (A-Basin uses dynamic pricing that ramps up as the weekend nears), estimating how many season pass holders and Ikon visitors will show up, then adjusting from there. Day tickets are ultimately the lever the team pulls to control each day’s crowds. The goal is to hit 4,140 visitors each day—A-Basin’s Comfortable Carrying Capacity, or CCC—but not exceed it.

Roughly a quarter of the ski area’s guests have season passes, while another quarter buy lift tickets ranging in price from $59 to $189. They are far from inexpensive on the high end of that scale, but as Henceroth says, “We want people to come because they like it here, not just because it’s the cheapest pass around.”
. . ."
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting to see the CCC number in the article.

" . . .
The quest to hit A-Basin’s visitation sweet spot starts with a weekly meeting. Every Tuesday, a small group of managers convenes to determine that week’s lift ticket strategy (A-Basin uses dynamic pricing that ramps up as the weekend nears), estimating how many season pass holders and Ikon visitors will show up, then adjusting from there. Day tickets are ultimately the lever the team pulls to control each day’s crowds. The goal is to hit 4,140 visitors each day—A-Basin’s Comfortable Carrying Capacity, or CCC—but not exceed it.

Roughly a quarter of the ski area’s guests have season passes, while another quarter buy lift tickets ranging in price from $59 to $189. They are far from inexpensive on the high end of that scale, but as Henceroth says, “We want people to come because they like it here, not just because it’s the cheapest pass around.”
. . ."

Yeah, Al talks about that number a lot in his blog & podcasts. The mountain can support more than 4k skiers (I'm not sure I've ever heard a number for how many more, but based on some of the truly terrible days at the end of Epic pass partnership I don't think it can be more than somewhere in the 5-6k range), but the big limiter in A-Basin's CCC is parking. Generally, when all the lots are full, they're at about 4k skiers. Apparently last season they only had 4 or 5 days total where they had over 4k skiers on the mountain, one of which was a powder day in mid-May when they were down to only 2 lifts open and reported 16". You can imagine how much of a sh*tshow that day was (spoiler alert: a very big one). :smile:

I thought the breakdown was interesting, too.... they say about 1/4 A-Basin passholders, 1/4 day tickets, which I guess leaves 50% as Ikon passholders? Last year on a podcast Al mentioned that Ikon skiers were were about 1-1.5k of the 4k goal on a big weekend holiday, but maybe big weekends have more day ticket buyers than average or something. Interesting to get a ballpark idea, anyways.
 

rhymeandreason

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The sharp increase in population in the Denver area in the last decade or so is far more of a factor than ABasin being on Ikon. Or Epic before that. Plenty of ABasin skiers were buying Epic instead of an ABasin season pass. Of course, some locals think dropping Ikon would solve the crowding problem. The population increase just for Denver is on the order of 20% since 2010.

Participating in skiing in the southeast has also increased in recent years. Population shifts to the sun belt from the northeast and other parts of the country are a factor. Along with snow making improvements that have actually extended the season a few years when Mother Nature cooperated. That includes this season in spite of, or because of, pandemic restrictions.
I agree with this. And I guess I will buck the trend of wanting mountains to severely limit skier numbers. Of course everyone would prefer to have uncrowded slopes and experience solitude. But don’t we also want as many people to enjoy the sport as possible and to encourage families to introduce their kids to the sport? We can’t have it both ways.

I don’t have a perfect solution in mind, but I don’t think limiting access to the mountains is the right answer if it prevents people from being able to ski. I wish communities funded small ski areas just like they fund public pools and libraries. I wish ski areas were not as risky and expensive to operate. I don’t have the right or privilege to ask others not to ski so that I don’t have to wait in lines or pay to park. There are too many skiers, so we are all part of the problem.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I thought the breakdown was interesting, too.... they say about 1/4 A-Basin passholders, 1/4 day tickets, which I guess leaves 50% as Ikon passholders? Last year on a podcast Al mentioned that Ikon skiers were were about 1-1.5k of the 4k goal on a big weekend holiday, but maybe big weekends have more day ticket buyers than average or something. Interesting to get a ballpark idea, anyways.
What would be interesting to know is the breakdown for the Ikon holders. In particular how many live more than a 2 hour drive from ABasin.

When the MCP first appeared, there were locals who lived in SLC who got it instead of buying day tickets. Mostly people who could only ski on weekends or a rare day when they had the "powder flu." When Alta and Snowbird were separate, that could mean 5 included days just in LCC plus 50% off any additional days.

The use of Ikon by people who live in big mountain ski country is probably pretty different than someone who is flying to ski at Ikon resorts.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
And I guess I will buck the trend of wanting mountains to severely limit skier numbers. Of course everyone would prefer to have uncrowded slopes and experience solitude. But don’t we also want as many people to enjoy the sport as possible and to encourage families to introduce their kids to the sport? We can’t have it both ways.

I don't think anyone has severely limited skier numbers. A Basin has reduced season pass sales by 20%, but they are an Ikon partner still. 4000 skiers a day sounds like a lot to me in a ski area less than 2000 acres (some else mentioned Taos at 5000--also an area less than 2000 acres. I know at Crystal, when all parking and buses fill, they have 6k people on 2600 acres and it is insane).

At my former home mountain, Crystal, where the limit is via parking reservation, that's because there are parkouts. No one wants to drive 2 hours each way only to have to turn around and drive home. Parkouts happen at all 3 ski areas closest to the Seattle area. Facilities have limits. Solitude wasn't anyone's goal with pass or parking limits and that isn't what's happening.

I don't see this as a "we can't have this both ways" situation. Ideally a ski area finds a balance between being profitable via selling lots of tickets/passes and keeping people happy by actually having a parking spot for them and not making them wait in hour long lift and gear rental lines (plus nowhere to sit at lunch, etc). The WA attorney general was beleaguered with complaints after Stevens Pass went on Epic and passholders found they couldn't get a parking spot and crowds overwhelmed facilities. Both Snoqualmie and Crystal have made headline news here after going on passes and simply not being able to provide the facilities to accommodate passholders.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I don’t have a perfect solution in mind, but I don’t think limiting access to the mountains is the right answer if it prevents people from being able to ski. I wish communities funded small ski areas just like they fund public pools and libraries. I wish ski areas were not as risky and expensive to operate. I don’t have the right or privilege to ask others not to ski so that I don’t have to wait in lines or pay to park. There are too many skiers, so we are all part of the problem.
The resorts on Ikon/Epic are what tend to make news when it comes to limiting capacity. What I've noticed is quite a variation between regions in terms of what it takes to get started on the slopes. Finding a way to ski 5-6 days for under $50/day per adult ticket can be done. That's one reason the Indy Pass was created. There are still beginner packages but those are well advertised beyond being listed on a resort's website. My home hill (northern Virginia) is a 4-season resort that caters mostly to beginners and intermediates who ski once or twice a season for a long weekend. It ends up sold out of day tickets on holiday Saturdays, but gives fair warning weeks in advance.

I don't think anyone has severely limited skier numbers. A Basin has reduced season pass sales by 20%, but they are an Ikon partner still. 4000 skiers a day sounds like a lot to me in a ski area less than 2000 acres (some else mentioned Taos at 5000--also an area less than 2000 acres. I know at Crystal, when all parking and buses fill, they have 6k people on 2600 acres and it is insane).
Makes a bit of a difference how the people spread out. My impression is that most ABasin skiers are all over the place when the snow is good and terrain is 100% open. Taos on a Saturday morning only feels crowded for 20 minutes when everyone is loading Lift 1 from the main base. After that, if the Ridge is open and then the Kachina Lift opens up at 10:00, the lower mountain doesn't feel crowded at all. The CCC for Alta is comparable to ABasin and Taos. Alta on a powder day will max out parking in the morning, but the only reason the slopes may feel crowded is when some of the advanced/expert terrain isn't open because ski patrol still have work to do.
 

rhymeandreason

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't think anyone has severely limited skier numbers. A Basin has reduced season pass sales by 20%, but they are an Ikon partner still. 4000 skiers a day sounds like a lot to me in a ski area less than 2000 acres (some else mentioned Taos at 5000--also an area less than 2000 acres. I know at Crystal, when all parking and buses fill, they have 6k people on 2600 acres and it is insane).

At my former home mountain, Crystal, where the limit is via parking reservation, that's because there are parkouts. No one wants to drive 2 hours each way only to have to turn around and drive home. Parkouts happen at all 3 ski areas closest to the Seattle area. Facilities have limits. Solitude wasn't anyone's goal with pass or parking limits and that isn't what's happening.

I don't see this as a "we can't have this both ways" situation. Ideally a ski area finds a balance between being profitable via selling lots of tickets/passes and keeping people happy by actually having a parking spot for them and not making them wait in hour long lift and gear rental lines (plus nowhere to sit at lunch, etc). The WA attorney general was beleaguered with complaints after Stevens Pass went on Epic and passholders found they couldn't get a parking spot and crowds overwhelmed facilities. Both Snoqualmie and Crystal have made headline news here after going on passes and simply not being able to provide the facilities to accommodate passholders.
I suppose “severe limitation” is in the eye of the beholder. A reduction of 20% doesn’t seem severe… unless you are part of that 20%! How would we feel if there was a lottery system to determine who could purchase a pass? If a 20% reduction was conducted by a lottery system at your home mountain, you would have a 1 in 5 chance of not being able to buy a season pass. That would cripple my ski season and make me very sad! There is a certain unwillingness to point the finger at oneself among skiers. When the traffic is terrible or the lift lines are long, I hear much blame put on crowds, but never any acknowledgement that WE are part of the crowd.

Limiting passes is the obvious solution to accommodate a reasonable number of skiers, as you say. It’s a real shame.
 
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