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Overcoming mindset

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
Alright…

I tried to get a lesson in this season, but in classical mom fashion, I prioritized everyone else over myself and so I missed the opportunity. (lesson duly noted and learned, oxygen mask on self, first).

This year I made big strides in my skiing in terms of form and comfort, but I realized this week that I feel like I’m going faster than I am and I need to get over my fear of speed. I’m holding myself back. I figured this out because I had my husband finally video me and realized how sloooooowwwwwly I ski relative to how it feels. I tried to use data to do this for myself but I consistently failed to effectively start SkiTracks all season.

I can turn effectively on almost any green/blue/easy black incline and maintain control, but I (think I) am rushing my turns to scrub off speed, instead of following the natural arc of the ski. As I descend, I link turns all the way down, but every once in a while, I feel anxiety about my speed and have to stop just to reset my brain because the speed is making me push myself into the backseat and I can feel the resulting adverse effects on my skiing.

Things I’ve tried… chanting tall/tip/turn as I ski as a mantra and singing.

Has anyone had this experience? What have you done? How have you overcome it? Is it just reps? Is there something else? I read “A Conversation with Fear” and if it were purely a conscious thing I think I’d have it licked.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
If you feel insecure with the speed and slow down because of that, your fear may be justified. If it is, you should definitely not get over the insecurity. Too many people do overcome the fear, and once the've overridden the inner message that this is too fast for them, they go zooming down the hill a danger to themselves and others. These people are all over the hill these days.

I'm in the "trust the feeling" camp.

Is it really too late in the season to take lessons? Your technical skills may need some tweaking in order to make better turns that will naturally replace the insecure sensations with a sense of security. You'll feel secure when your skis grip at the bottom of the turn.

One clue that this may the the case with your turns, and that your insecurity may be justified, is that you say you may be rushing your turns to scrub off speed. This common movement pattern has real problems. The rush at the top will lead to the skis scraping against the snow, desperately seeking grip, at the bottom of the turn. There will be a progressive slow-down, but when your skis are doing this braking, they only have tentative control over the downhill speed. They are just barely holding on as they progressively reduce the downhill speed.

The skier usually is leaning back uphill to create the edging that does the braking. This means the skier's body at that point is not free to do anything else but brace against the snow. A bracing body can't manipulate the skis to get them to travel left or right. Skier travel to the left or right is out of control as well. Feeling OK in this situation is not a good thing.

I'm all for a lesson or two or three to build the skill to get secure grip at the bottom of the turn that replaces the bracing/braking with controlled lateral travel. How to do this is not intuitive, and once the pivot-and-brace movement pattern gets embedded in muscle memory, it's hard to replace.

Don't wait.
 
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Skier31

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I understand where you are coming from. A couple of thoughts:

1. There may be some things you are doing in your turns that are causing your brain to "sense" that you are going too fast. Can you get some video and post or email to me? Changes in technique often lead to increased speed and comfort without even realizing it or trying to go faster.

2. Go to flat, easy runs where you are super comfortable. Go straight down the hill - get used to going straight and picking up speed. Play with increasing the time you go straight down the hill.

3. Strive to make your turns more down the hill and less across the hill. More C or banana shaped.
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
Thanks for the input. I’m pretty bummed about the lesson.

It’s definitely too late here… I tried to get one at Lutsen but they cancelled my lesson. :(
I’m planning on booking a lesson with the instructor I trust on my first ski day next winter. Everyone else is on their own next year (not really, but definitely prioritizing myself this coming year).

I don’t have video of the better runs. I tend to go behind everyone. Son is too fast, daughter is either faster on purpose or slow and I want to make sure she’s ok. Husband is still super cautious so I prefer to ski cleanup.

PSA to all the moms. Prioritize your own self. :smile:
 

Knitjenious

Angel Diva
Following along because, once again, @Iwannaski you and I seem to have very similar paths!

I did in fact do a lesson this year and worked on the issue you describe-- rushing turns and then skidding to scrub speed. Part of what the instructor worked with me on was focusing on letting the downhill ski lead the turn just a little more (I might me describing that terribly -- like, just flattening that ski a little first) because, as he described in physics terms, I was building up a lot of potential energy by not letting that ski ride more freely, which the turned into kinetic energy that I felt I had to scrub at the end of the turn. He introduced me to pivot slips as an exercise.
 

Knitjenious

Angel Diva
Also @Iwannaski I take inspiration from all the women here who are skiing into their 60s and remember that in 5-8 years I will have a lot more freedom and flexibility to ski more on my own or on Diva trips maybe. And in the meantime I hope to squeeze in some lessons and find the balance between learning/improving and remembering that skiing is supposed to be fun.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
PSA to all the moms. Prioritize your own self. :smile:
Trick is to plan for lessons at the beginning of the season, as many as practical. I always required my daughter and any other kids I was with to at least take a lesson during the first ski trip. When they were little kids that meant ski school. But even after they were done having fun at ski school for one reason or another, it meant a group lesson for intermediates.

Had I known 15 years ago what I know now about lessons for intermediate and advanced skiers when my daughter had become an intermediate, I would've started lessons for myself more regularly by the time she was 6 after she started at 4. At that point, it was clear we would be skiing more days and buying gear. Since I didn't start lessons and was an adventurous intermediate, she was far better than I was by the time she was 10. That was partially because we started taken spring break trips to Alta when she was 7.
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
@Knitjenious … I think you and I should definitely meet up for a womens’ clinic. And yes… it’s just the start of the journey. Conscious incompetence. :smile:
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
@marzNC…. Yes… part of my challenge is keeping up with my kids. It’s a “problem” I’m grateful to have.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks for the input. I’m pretty bummed about the lesson.

It’s definitely too late here… I tried to get one at Lutsen but they cancelled my lesson. :(
I’m planning on booking a lesson with the instructor I trust on my first ski day next winter. Everyone else is on their own next year (not really, but definitely prioritizing myself this coming year).

I don’t have video of the better runs. I tend to go behind everyone. Son is too fast, daughter is either faster on purpose or slow and I want to make sure she’s ok. Husband is still super cautious so I prefer to ski cleanup.

PSA to all the moms. Prioritize your own self. :smile:
You've got a good plan. Have fun on the journey building skills. It takes deliberate practice, good coaching, persistence, and time. But oh how much fun it is on the journey when those breakthroughs show up!
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Can't resist the urge to say something technical.

Tipping the current outside ski to start the new turn, the one that is carrying your weight, the one that is more downhill than the other one, is the trick. Getting that ski onto its Little Toe Edge (LTE) before the new turn starts is the thing to learn to do to get control of the bottom of the turn.

That means you raise the arch of that foot, lifting the big toe edge of the ski up off the snow, leaving the little toe side of the ski down on the snow. Work on doing this on low pitch terrain. This movement alone will start a turn.

Ways to lift that arch to tip that ski to its LTE:
--go bowlegged with that leg; roll that knee outward away from the other knee
--and/or bend the ankle sideways inside that boot
--and/or bend that leg at the knee
--and/or pull that foot back by bending the knee

The whole deal:
Tip to little toe and around you'll go.

Then wait, wait, wait --- and the skis will turn you. Your pivot will no longer be needed.

In other words:
Purge the Pivot.
 

Knitjenious

Angel Diva
Can't resist the urge to say something technical.

Tipping the current outside ski to start the new turn, the one that is carrying your weight, the one that is more downhill than the other one, is the trick. Getting that ski onto its Little Toe Edge (LTE) before the new turn starts is the thing to learn to do to get control of the bottom of the turn.

That means you raise the arch of that foot, lifting the big toe edge of the ski up off the snow, leaving the little toe side of the ski down on the snow. Work on doing this on low pitch terrain. This movement alone will start a turn.
^^^That!^^^ :becky:

I am glad to see I at least partially absorbed what the instructor was trying to tell me, regardless of my inability to explain it well and the fact that I only succeeded in doing it about half the time. Lol.

Thank you for describing it so well @liquidfeet ! (Now to spend the next 9 months visualizing what you wrote so that maybe I can do it better next year.)
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
@liquidfeet… I always love the technical!!! Also, it’s funny, because in the Deb Armstrong videos, I remembered her talking about driving the inside knee and I found that when I did that my little toe did engage much better than I’d been able to get it to do before. It was really a revelation this week.

On the “perfect” conditions, that was my focus and I felt SOOOOO good. I could generally feel when I was skiing the way I should be and the way I didn’t want to be - so I feel like that is at least a step in the right direction to not locking in the bad habits!?!?

It is definitely a work in process… I’m not devastated with the season’s progress, I’m just (in life and when turning on skis) not as patient as I should be… :wink:
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I often joke to my students that in order to go fast we must learn to go slow, except I think that this is actually key and not really a joke. Even the fastest racers need to perfect the speed control as they know how to point them and let them run, but the right speed control at the right time is what will win the race for them.

Too much to cover here, especially without knowing how much of your fear of speed is because of a lack of skills, or a perceived lack of skills, or simply a lack of confidence. All three are needed, but the solution varies person by person.

I primarily focus on three ways to manage speed, and once I feel fairly comfortable with owning all three, I then, if it is safe for me and those around me, will allow myself to open it up and go full speed. I encourage you to become adept at short radius turns, rounded and fully finished turns, and the use of your edge to create friction or a skidded, the opposite of a carved turn. Practicing hockey stops is also a big confidence builder before going fast.

The last bit that I find is surprisingly lacking in many of my students and can hinder our progress towards speed more than anything else is not looking far enough forward in the ultimate direction of travel. My analogy is driving down the highway or freeway. Most of us can manage going 60 or 70 miles per hour, because we are looking quite a ways in the distance. Now imagine rolling down the car window and looking at the ground? Most of us would be horrified by how fast we were traveling and the urge to slow down would be immediate. The same is true for skiing. If I am going 15 mph it is fine if I am looking at the end of the turn I just made, maybe. But, if my goal is to go say 25 or 35 mph, then it is absolutely crucial that I look toward my end destination on the hill, even if I can't see it beyond a roller or turn. Not only is this key to being safe and anticipation risk ahead, but my perception of the real speed goes down drastically allowing me to relax and perform better at speed.

Good luck for next season!
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
I was musing about exactly this focal point thing last night, @snoWYmonkey and realized my best skiing is when I’m looking further ahead. Now, seems obvious, right, but common sense =/= common practice. But when I really broke it down, I realized exactly what you said. The ground just moves “faster” when you’re not looking further ahead.

When I get tense, I try to micromanage the terrain in front of me, which makes me see the ground moving faster, which is counterintuitively worse for the tension! And that is an easier thing to work on addressing. :smile: So maybe the tool for supporting a better mindset is better discipline on focusing further ahead.

Thank you for articulating it so well.

I also wonder if this isn’t part of my problem on new slopes…. *mind blown*
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
....imagine rolling down the car window and looking at the ground? Most of us would be horrified by how fast we were traveling and the urge to slow down would be immediate. The same is true for skiing. If I am going 15 mph it is fine if I am looking at the end of the turn I just made, maybe. But, if my goal is to go say 25 or 35 mph, then it is absolutely crucial that I look toward my end destination on the hill....
So well stated....
 

Lmk92

Angel Diva
Crazy helpful thread. I took screenshots that I hope to be able to find next season. Thank you ladies!
 

floatingyardsale

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Alright…

I tried to get a lesson in this season, but in classical mom fashion, I prioritized everyone else over myself and so I missed the opportunity. (lesson duly noted and learned, oxygen mask on self, first).

This year I made big strides in my skiing in terms of form and comfort, but I realized this week that I feel like I’m going faster than I am and I need to get over my fear of speed. I’m holding myself back. I figured this out because I had my husband finally video me and realized how sloooooowwwwwly I ski relative to how it feels. I tried to use data to do this for myself but I consistently failed to effectively start SkiTracks all season.

I can turn effectively on almost any green/blue/easy black incline and maintain control, but I (think I) am rushing my turns to scrub off speed, instead of following the natural arc of the ski. As I descend, I link turns all the way down, but every once in a while, I feel anxiety about my speed and have to stop just to reset my brain because the speed is making me push myself into the backseat and I can feel the resulting adverse effects on my skiing.

Things I’ve tried… chanting tall/tip/turn as I ski as a mantra and singing.

Has anyone had this experience? What have you done? How have you overcome it? Is it just reps? Is there something else? I read “A Conversation with Fear” and if it were purely a conscious thing I think I’d have it licked.

One thing I do is find a run I know very well with good visibility and a good run-out. - the kind of run where if you straightline it you're not going to be surprised by a trail merge or tree and the terrain will slow you down at the bottom.

Then I look wayyyy ahead, start the run, and count to three before I turn. In my experience, I need to kind of recalibrate my brain for speed so it doesn't feel scary. I find then the runs look less steep.

I have to recalibrate like this because I scrub a lot of speed skiing with the kids and it tends to turn into a bad habit to wash out the tails.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Iwannaski that is literally my husband. 2 heart surgeries in 6 months and less than 3 weeks post op after the second surgery he takes a rope line to the face and is back in the ER on his first day back on the slopes.

Also, as I got back on the bike I realized that 25 mph on a bike path is sooo scary to me, while 40 on skis is not. My own is not much better than my hubby's ♥️
 

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