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VT or bust

lisamamot

Angel Diva
I wish I could live in VT. I live in Massachusetts because of my job. I have nothing in common here with anyone. Everyone hates snow here and I love it. Everyone has bald tires in Massachusetts and then complains if we get a dusting of snow. I am the only one who shows up to work when it snows. Nobody here knows how to drive in it.
It is curious how many in MA seem to hate winter - even the newscasters which is a particular pet peeve of mine, lol. That said, you are in the right place here on Ski Diva to find other displaced snow lovers! Due to career building we ended-up in MA 30 years ago, and although we have built a life there, VT will always be home to us. We put snow tires on our AWD vehicles right before Thanksgiving and take them off around Easter. Old VT habits are hard to break. No studded snows allowed in MA :smile:
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Did a diva grab this house up? I thought it was funny to see it pop up in my email listings today after I saw it here earlier in the week. Looks to be under contract now.0D6D9C8D-70E7-4A24-941E-2E5377F7844D.png
 

jthree

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hi all, just catching up to this thread now. I've been in Vermont for just over 2 years (landed a new job here- in hindsight, so lucky on the timing of that!). We moved from MA and I grew up in the NY/NJ area. I live in South Burlington, since moving I've skied Bolton Valley, Smuggler's, Sugarbush, and Stowe (plus Cochran's!). We love the SB school system and it's close to work (yep, I still have to show up in person) though a bit of a drive to the mountains. I don't know the other towns so well, but I know a few people from Richmond who really seem to love their town and schools, and it gets you a bit closer to the mountains (plus Cochran's is pretty much in your backyard).

Bolton is the closest to me, I think my overall favorite has been Sugarbush, and I've skied Smuggs the most and know it the best now. They have a great locals lessons program for kids and run a women's program at the same time (I've posted my love for it a few times on this board I think). The two women in my ski class last year were both from Cambridge (where Smuggs is), both had kids, and both seem pretty happy with the school system. Their kids both started at the Smuggs lessons programs when younger but they moved on to the racing program run by the Ski & Snowboard Club, which seems to have a pretty great program.

My in-laws have had a condo in Manchester VT for a number of years so I know that area somewhat. It is a great little town to visit, though I can't speak to the school system. I've skied both Bromley and Stratton-- Bromley is more laid back but smaller, Stratton has a lot more terrain.

I just remembered that a Boston area friend was able to rent a house in Stowe at the start of the pandemic. When school started in-person this fall (most VT schools are either fully in-person or have a hybrid program), she was really happy- her son really blossomed after struggling the the Cambridge MA school system.

Re some of the other thoughts on this thread-- I grew up in the greater NYC area, my husband is from upstate NY, and we lived upstate for a few years... there is DEFINITELY a big difference (and some animus) between upstaters and city folk! When I lived in MA, I guess I was lucky to live in a snow/ski loving neighborhood when we were there...great memories of all our kids out building snowmen and having snowball fights after the big storms. We used to meet up with our neighbors to ski at Wachusett. Also, I'm so glad I found my job and house before the big influx of new Vermonters, but I've been daydreaming about either renovating our house or buying a mountain house, looks like both of those may be on the back burner for a while.

I have heard 2 things about the influx of new Vermonters. Yes it's driving up housing costs. But, VT has had a declining population for a while which is not good for the tax base-- the state has actually been trying to attract remote workers to move here for a while (there was a monetary incentive I think). I'm no economist so I don't know what's best in the long run... the housing crunch needs to be figured out, and hopefully VT doesn't get too built up either or it will lose the thing that makes it great.

Good luck in your search! And, SkiVT2, I feel for you!
 

snowski/swimmouse

Angel Diva
Yes, you're correct about the incentive $ VT offered to get people to move to the state. Problem's the younger generation were finishing school and settling elsewhere. So, workforce was shrinking amongst other things....
 

ilovepugs

Angel Diva
I'm no economist so I don't know what's best in the long run... the housing crunch needs to be figured out, and hopefully VT doesn't get too built up either or it will lose the thing that makes it great.

There are so many uncertainties in the development process in Vermont that it’s just expensive to get anything done. Act 250 is a huge barrier to development because it acts as a state wide zoning process. There are also random permitting fees (like the agricultural impact fee which sounds good in theory but doesn’t really reflect the reality of development patterns) that drive up costs further. The developers don’t care or have an incentive to lobby for change; they just pass costs on to consumers.

A few cities have made changes to help streamline the development process - I know S. Burlington and Winooski both adopted a form-based code that makes local zoning compliance much easier - but until we have a realistic fix for Act 250 and a certain subset of voters can relax a bit on the mindset that All Development is Bad and Will Utterly Destroy the Environment (while proudly flying flags virtue signaling inclusivity) it’s difficult to imagine substantial changes. Increasing funding for affordable housing alone won’t do the job; the demand for workforce housing is just too great.

Hope my little rant doesn’t veer too far into the political here - I worked on financing for several hundred units of affordable housing around the state in the year before I left private practice and clearly have Opinions on the matter.
 

snowski/swimmouse

Angel Diva
Living in South Carolina, I was usually the last one too arrive (on-time) at work, unless there was snow or ice; Then I was first (or only one) to arrive at work!!!! I learned to drive on Long Island and in Weathersfield, Vermont....
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I think many people in MA just have bald tires.. I use snow tires and have never had an issue. When I was still commuting to work snow days were unbearably annoying. There could be almost no snow, but as soon as it’s white bam spin outs everywhere causing even more traffic. No thanks, I work from home on those days not because I can’t drive in it but because I don’t feel like dealing with the others around me. Adds an extra layer of anxiety too because people out of control means I could be in the wrong place at the wrong time and have them crash into me. They are always the one who go speeding by you, then you see them in a ditch a mile down the road. I’m more motivated to brave the roads if it’s for skiing versus for work where I can just work from home that day.
 

snowski/swimmouse

Angel Diva
I always have good tires, but when getting to the slopes in NC involves more than a little snow, I have "cables" (instead of the old chains) that I can put on my car myself for those *rare* occasions when needed. Fortunately when I bought a new car, the ones from the old car still fit....
 

BlackDiamondVolkl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I used to ski in Northern Vermont when I lived in FAR upstate NY. Smuggler's Notch by far was my favorite. Now I live in NH. I hope to ski Killington and Okemo, but VT doesn't want New Hampshirites right now cause of COVID (I don't blame them)
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I understand the real estate bubble that COVID has created. It is happening everywhere, not just in tourist areas. People are buying at exorbitant prices not only near ski areas, but even in my small town in MA. Rates are low and real estate is hot.

Ditto, this is happening anywhere people want to live, and while it may be worse during Covid and with these very low interest rates, the housing crunch in desirable areas has been going on quite a while. My Seattle neighborhood, for the first time in 15 years, didn't have a single new real estate listing last month. There is literally nothing for sale. Any West Coast city, most western cities and towns, any western ski town for sure, and anyplace anyone would want a vacation home...there are way more people that want to live there than there are homes. It's been hard for working people to afford to live in or near ski towns for a long time--that's nothing new. But there is certainly even more of a crunch now that people can work remotely.

Yes, you're correct about the incentive $ VT offered to get people to move to the state. Problem's the younger generation were finishing school and settling elsewhere. So, workforce was shrinking amongst other things....

There are a bunch of places offering money to transplants. Tulsa, Savannah, Chattanooga, various places on the Great Plains... Arkansas will give you 10K and a mountain bike. And there are still places that still offer a good quality of life at a reasonable cost of living. My in laws live in Des Moines and you'd think, who'd want to live in Iowa? Well, they have beautiful homes in historic neighborhoods, leafy parks, excellent jobs etc etc along with low housing costs, so they have plenty of money left over for travel. Meanwhile it seems like the rest of America is trying to cram into very particular places creating these housing crises.
 
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snowski/swimmouse

Angel Diva
I used to ski in Northern Vermont when I lived in FAR upstate NY. Smuggler's Notch by far was my favorite. Now I live in NH. I hope to ski Killington and Okemo, but VT doesn't want New Hampshirites right now cause of COVID (I don't blame them)
And they ~really~ don't want a South Carolinian; This is the third month I've tried to get a refund on my pass that I bought at Okemo, but it's an Epic...
 

WhyKnot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I second the Upper Valley (UV). Also there's Suicide 6 in Woodstock for skiing which is great -- as well as the Dartmouth Skiway (and even the smaller Queechee ski hill) which are all lovely and not mobbed. For laid back of course Bolton may win that prize, maybe Smuggs too which I have not been too, and of course I hear Magic is great (never been). For a vibrant intellectual community, for great schools and incredible access to the outdoors plus great access to health care, the UV area is a good choice -- If your kids are into skiing the Ford Sayre program is also great. Of course it can be more pricey but further out better deals. To me it seems a choice for you all between wanting to be more rural or more urban-esgue - more near a college /hospital center, etc or more away from that (or even more near a huge lake i.e. Champlain if that is your thing (there are plenty of smaller lakes around and tons to do sailing, kayaking etc in summer). People love Burke area too, great skiing and great biking, and that's a different vibe there too. Wishing you a great decision.
 

snowski/swimmouse

Angel Diva
Ah, you're "singing my song"! I typically ski Suicide Six (3 miles) on Saturdays & Quechee on Sundays (6 miles) with weekdays mostly at Okemo (or Sunapee to take a lesson) with ventures to Pico, Bromley & Stratton, etc. I was supposed to try Magic this year. Sigh...!!! :cry:
 

Emski528

Angel Diva
I second the Upper Valley (UV). Also there's Suicide 6 in Woodstock for skiing which is great -- as well as the Dartmouth Skiway (and even the smaller Queechee ski hill) which are all lovely and not mobbed. For laid back of course Bolton may win that prize, maybe Smuggs too which I have not been too, and of course I hear Magic is great (never been). For a vibrant intellectual community, for great schools and incredible access to the outdoors plus great access to health care, the UV area is a good choice -- If your kids are into skiing the Ford Sayre program is also great. Of course it can be more pricey but further out better deals. To me it seems a choice for you all between wanting to be more rural or more urban-esgue - more near a college /hospital center, etc or more away from that (or even more near a huge lake i.e. Champlain if that is your thing (there are plenty of smaller lakes around and tons to do sailing, kayaking etc in summer). People love Burke area too, great skiing and great biking, and that's a different vibe there too. Wishing you a great decision.
So helpful! I’ll be saving this info for reference when we, hopefully, visit a few times this summer. Thank you!
 

Emski528

Angel Diva
, who'd want to live in Iowa? Well, they have beautiful homes in historic neighborhoods, leafy parks, excellent jobs etc etc along with low housing costs, so they have plenty of money left over for travel. Meanwhile it seems like the rest of America is trying to cram into very particular places creating these housing crises.[/QUOTE]
I, the OP, actually live in a similar place. I can see why people are happy where I am in western NY. Low cost of living, great schools, great kids team sports. I would encourage people looking for a simple, inexpensive lifestyle to live here. But we’ve never really adjusted to leisurely bike rides on a bike path and five nights a week in a folding chair watching kids play soccer which is now turning into weekends at hotels for tournaments. I thought I would eventually get used to it. There’s nothing wrong with those things at all but we are all looking for mountains, large areas of public land, fresh lakes and streams, and adventures for the whole family. I also wonder about so many families crowding the same cities and regions. I’ve been subscribing to ThinkVermont for the last two years. This whole mass move to the state might be just what they were looking for. Just not all at once.
 

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