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More ski resorts going to RFID

Belgiangirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Are you asking for places like Waterville Valley using a system without gates? Or places like Alta that have gates, but also have people looking at the photos that are stored for season passes? In either case, I'm guessing the fact that U.S. lifts are loaded based on people queuing in a "maze" of lift lines with employees managing the line may be a factor. By the time someone is about to reach the loading area, the line layout only allows a few people to enter the final section. I haven't skied in Europe but have read about the free-for-all pushing that can happen. Americans complain about waiting in lines, but they are used to the concept. I've traveled in other countries where that's not the case.

The gateless system to be specific. I guess the maze-like setup of the lift lines helps, most lifts here are just a semi-straight line to the loading area. You pass the RFID gate and then it's straight on to the individual loading gates, or whatever they're called. I get how people scanning tickets or a gate setup allows a resort to quickly filter out anyone without a pass or with an invalid pass.

With the gateless system I can see how employees would pick out those skiing with someone else's pass, a children's pass,.... but what if I just show up without any kind of RFID card and go to the loading area? Those systems are made to detect RFID cards, not any random moving object coming through if I'm not mistaken? Would humans have to check this? Once there's more than say, ten people waiting in line at a certain lift that's bound to become a mission impossible. At that point you're not just asking them to ID-check against ski pass pics, which is hard enough as it is, but you're also asking them to simultaneously scan queues for faces that don't show up in whatever software they're using to check against resort data??

Intelligent cameras with facial recognition could make this a relatively straightforward task, but that kind of technology is still really expensive so I just can't see that happening anytime soon. Really curious about how they've gone about this!

I've used Axess and Skidata RFID gates in various resorts! Both work just fine. Something I was surprised to learn from the links you shared, is that a lot of resorts only check passes at the bottom lifts (is that correct?). In contrast, almost every single lift here has RFID gates. The few lifts without gates are usually glacier surface lifts or smaller, older lifts that force you to take another lift (with gates) to head back to the base of a mountain.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
With the gateless system I can see how employees would pick out those skiing with someone else's pass, a children's pass,.... but what if I just show up without any kind of RFID card and go to the loading area? Those systems are made to detect RFID cards, not any random moving object coming through if I'm not mistaken? Would humans have to check this? Once there's more than say, ten people waiting in line at a certain lift that's bound to become a mission impossible. At that point you're not just asking them to ID-check against ski pass pics, which is hard enough as it is, but you're also asking them to simultaneously scan queues for faces that don't show up in whatever software they're using to check against resort data??
I really don't know. But I think you need to keep in mind the difference in scale and how lift lines work between a place like Waterville Valley and most ski areas in the Alps. I haven't skied in Europe so have only an impression from a few video clips.

Only season passes at WV have pictures. For someone who buys a day ticket, no picture. But presumably an indicator can go off when the RFID card is detected. If there are 3 people about to load a chair, then should be 3 "go" indicators somewhat before they start to get into position to load.

've used Axess and Skidata RFID gates in various resorts! Both work just fine. Something I was surprised to learn from the links you shared, is that a lot of resorts only check passes at the bottom lifts (is that correct?). In contrast, almost every single lift here has RFID gates. The few lifts without gates are usually glacier surface lifts or smaller, older lifts that force you to take another lift (with gates) to head back to the base of a mountain.
Since the investment in RFID gates is substantial, not installing them on upper mountain lifts is a budgetary decision. But it varies by ski resort. Alta has gates on all the lifts, including those that load mid-mountain (Supreme, Sugarloaf). Snowbird (the bases are a mile apart) does not. May be a factor that Alta installed RFID over 10 years ago, while Snowbird only installed RFID a few years ago. Presumably the cost of installation has gone up.
 

SkiBam

Angel Diva
If Mont Saint Sauveur has it, then Edelweiss, Morin Heights and all their associated places should have it too. It might just be snow school access like Tremblant's too.

saint Sauveur and all the “Sommets” hills - Morin Heights, Gabriel, Olympia - have gates.
 

Ringrat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had my first experience with RFID tech at Whistler this year. Everywhere I ski normally is still scanning passes by hand. I suppose I'll have to get used to it eventually as the way of the future, but I found it a hassle.

With a pass that gets scanned, I attach it to my jacket or pants, and there it stays, firmly attached and out of the way. With the RFID card it had to occupy a whole pocket to itself, and it had to be in my jacket, not my pants. The entire left side of my jacket became completely useless for holding anything else, both because the card had to be alone and because I was paranoid about opening that pocket and losing it. No holes in the card, so I couldn't attach it to anything. It seemed like I was forever trying to turn my body at the right angle or jump up and down or move it upwards without opening the pocket (or, a few times, taking off a mitten and opening the pocket) to get it to read.

What's the secret to being an efficient user, and to not losing half your pockets to the thing?
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
What's the secret to being an efficient user, and to not losing half your pockets to the thing?
Since I've been skiing Alta regularly for about 10 years, I haven't bought a ski jacket that doesn't have a sleeve pocket or at least a small chest pocket in a long time. That's where the RFID card goes.

Different gates have different tolerances for distance. The advantage of a sleeve pocket is that you only have to move your arm, not your whole body. Jackets for kids usually don't have a sleeve pocket. The ski school and lifties sometimes teach them to "hug" the gate.

No holes in the card, so I couldn't attach it to anything.
There are some RFID cards that come with a prepunched hole. Can punch arbitrarily because could damage the RFID stuff.
 

Ringrat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Do you have a sleeve pocket?

Since I've been skiing Alta regularly for about 10 years, I haven't bought a ski jacket that doesn't have a sleeve pocket or at least a small chest pocket in a long time. That's where the RFID card goes.

Ah. My rain jacket has a sleeve pocket that I've never found useful. Possibly also a function of not having bought a ski jacket in 15 years...
My sister's jacket has one with a plastic window and I've always watched her struggle at the scanners with it, but I'll have to keep in that mind when jacket shopping.

There are some RFID cards that come with a prepunched hole. Can punch arbitrarily because could damage the RFID stuff.

Yah, I wasn't about to poke holes in it. Good to know some of them have holes already.
 

Belgiangirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
What's the secret to being an efficient user, and to not losing half your pockets to the thing?
Since I've been skiing Alta regularly for about 10 years, I haven't bought a ski jacket that doesn't have a sleeve pocket or at least a small chest pocket in a long time. That's where the RFID card goes.
^this. I like the upper arm pockets best since I'm not exactly a tall person, but BF usually keeps his card in one of his pant pockets and rarely has issues at the gate. If you want to wear the pass on the outside without punching holes, maybe you could try something like this:
1369811(1).jpg
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I had my first experience with RFID tech at Whistler this year. Everywhere I ski normally is still scanning passes by hand. I suppose I'll have to get used to it eventually as the way of the future, but I found it a hassle.

With a pass that gets scanned, I attach it to my jacket or pants, and there it stays, firmly attached and out of the way. With the RFID card it had to occupy a whole pocket to itself, and it had to be in my jacket, not my pants. The entire left side of my jacket became completely useless for holding anything else, both because the card had to be alone and because I was paranoid about opening that pocket and losing it. No holes in the card, so I couldn't attach it to anything. It seemed like I was forever trying to turn my body at the right angle or jump up and down or move it upwards without opening the pocket (or, a few times, taking off a mitten and opening the pocket) to get it to read.

What's the secret to being an efficient user, and to not losing half your pockets to the thing?

I have a flat plastic pouch that attaches to your arm with an elastic band, and also one that clips to my goggle strap.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I have a flat plastic pouch that attaches to your arm with an elastic band, and also one that clips to my goggle strap.
I have those for places where the bar code has to be scanned. But for an RFID card, much prefer putting it in a zip pocket where I don't have to worry about it at all.

The only time I have to pay attention is during a late season trip where I bring more than one jacket. Have to remember to move the hidden pass when I decide to wear a different jacket.

Recently I ended up with two RFID cards by mistake. Slipped a new card into the sleeve pocket and didn't realize I had one there from a previous trip. The suggestion from the liftie was to put the extra one in the same pocket as my cell phone. That blocked that card and I had no issues. So I didn't have to take time to put away the extra one.
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The suggestion from the liftie was to put the extra one in the same pocket as my cell phone. That blocked that card and I had no issues. So I didn't have to take time to put away the extra one.
Clever idea. Both my Wachusett pass and my Ikon are RFID, and I didn't want to risk leaving the wrong one at home, or even just in my boot bag. I bought a small RFID blocking card holder at Sierra and always keep that in one of my jacket pockets so I can swap out cards easily as needed.

My jacket has a special pass pocket inside near the hem. Instead of plastic it has a mesh front that you can see through, and it closes securely with velcro. I'd think you could easily sew something like that into any coat. I keep meaning to buy one of the goggle pockets for when my Ikon needs to be visible. I don't like having it on a lanyard.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I have those for places where the bar code has to be scanned. But for an RFID card, much prefer putting it in a zip pocket where I don't have to worry about it at all.

The only time I have to pay attention is during a late season trip where I bring more than one jacket. Have to remember to move the hidden pass when I decide to wear a different jacket.

Recently I ended up with two RFID cards by mistake. Slipped a new card into the sleeve pocket and didn't realize I had one there from a previous trip. The suggestion from the liftie was to put the extra one in the same pocket as my cell phone. That blocked that card and I had no issues. So I didn't have to take time to put away the extra one.

Yeah, I mostly use it for Sunday River, they visually check passes, but do not scan them so it’s quickest to have them visible close to eye level. I’ve used them for RFID gates as well, it just depends on the particular ones and where the reader is on them. Some you just zip right through, and some seem more specific of where you need to have your pass. One reason I like having it outside of a pocket is that sometimes I forget which pocket I put my pass in depending on the jacket. :doh: You can ask @lisamamot and @Jenny of my encounter with a gate at Mount Ellen where I apparently caused quite the scene trying to figure out which pocket to get nearest the reader :rotf:
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
My new jacket doesn't have anywhere to hang a lift pass of any type. There is the small pocket in the left sleeve for any RFID card. So I need to wear my Ikon pass on a lanyard as there is no where else to put it. I may add a ring this summer somewhere on the outside.
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
Yes, @Missy
Yeah, I mostly use it for Sunday River, they visually check passes, but do not scan them so it’s quickest to have them visible close to eye level. I’ve used them for RFID gates as well, it just depends on the particular ones and where the reader is on them. Some you just zip right through, and some seem more specific of where you need to have your pass. One reason I like having it outside of a pocket is that sometimes I forget which pocket I put my pass in depending on the jacket. :doh: You can ask @lisamamot and @Jenny of my encounter with a gate at Mount Ellen where I apparently caused quite the scene trying to figure out which pocket to get nearest the reader :rotf:
Yes, @MissySki got VERY friendly with the gate the first time she tried to get through! Refused to do it again for a picture, though. Spoil sport!
 

SkiBam

Angel Diva
Sounds maybe like what happened to one of the guys on our recent Swiss trip. The turnstile "unlocked" and he got himself halfway through (ie. one leg in and one out - he was straddling the turnstile) before it stopped, trapping him there. The woman leading us had to get pretty up close and personal with him to get the gate to open using her pass, then in a hurry, before the turnstile "froze" again, get his other leg through - and herself at the same time. It could have been an embarrassing "getting through the gate" injury!
 

SkiGAP

Angel Diva
...Intelligent cameras with facial recognition could make this a relatively straightforward task.

Between my helmet, goggles, and neck gaiter, the only part of my face that shows is the tip of my nose...So facial recognition will be less accurate in that case, I imagine. I am not alone in that.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
I know they ask you to lift you goggles at WB first gates....And I don't think I wore a gaiter out there. So much warmer than in the east.
 

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