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The sexualization of female athletes.
- Thread starter ski diva
- Start date
mustski
Angel Diva
To me this quote kind of summed it all up. "I've been to a competition where the reward was a men's snowboard." We've had this discussion also, but do we need designated women's gear?
Not trying to create any discord here, but is it possible that men watch sports more than women and therefore drive where sports dollars are invested? After all, advertisers pretty much drives sports funding now. I know that I rarely watch sports on TV. I would rather be doing something than watching sports. However, my DH feels the same so we may just be anomalies.
Not trying to create any discord here, but is it possible that men watch sports more than women and therefore drive where sports dollars are invested? After all, advertisers pretty much drives sports funding now. I know that I rarely watch sports on TV. I would rather be doing something than watching sports. However, my DH feels the same so we may just be anomalies.
newboots
Angel Diva
This video made me sad, and mad, of course. I hate that a beautiful snowboarder felt compelled to pose in the nude. I hate that other, less gorgeous, but talented athletes won't be noticed. I hate that the record-breaking moments weren't shown on TV, but the fans had to hunt them down on YouTube.
Nearly-irrelevant comment:
Is anyone watching "I Love Dick" on Amazon? Interesting series (fiction) about artists and the female artist going unseen and unheard until she goes to great lengths to insist that she be seen/heard. A story involving sexual objectification of a man told from an entirely female point of view. Startling, and gives us some insight into the whole dynamic. From the creator of Transparent. Perhaps should be in a separate thread.
It can be challenging to watch. This article was helpful:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/watching/i-love-dick-review-roundup-good-articles.html
Nearly-irrelevant comment:
Is anyone watching "I Love Dick" on Amazon? Interesting series (fiction) about artists and the female artist going unseen and unheard until she goes to great lengths to insist that she be seen/heard. A story involving sexual objectification of a man told from an entirely female point of view. Startling, and gives us some insight into the whole dynamic. From the creator of Transparent. Perhaps should be in a separate thread.
It can be challenging to watch. This article was helpful:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/watching/i-love-dick-review-roundup-good-articles.html
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
N0, but I heard an interview with Kevin Bacon about it on the podcast Death, Sex, and Money.
Does seem like a different topic.
newboots
Angel Diva
How odd! It posted accidentally, and when I decided to move it to its own thread, I couldn't locate it! But here it is. Will leave it to the wisdom of moderators and administrators. Oops.
heather matthews
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Funny today at work during a break I was showing a colleague a helmet cam video taken by Rachel Atherton of a practice run on the downhill course at Fort William.He automatically assumed it was a male rider and that is pretty much typical.There was also an interview with her and the reporter actually asked her when she was going to retire and settle down and have a family.Seriously ,FFS,thats beyond insulting.It really ground my gears!!!
I mean, I think men do generally watch more sports than women, but who says they only want to watch men playing sports? My boyfriend will watch more or less any sports thing with a decent level of play and a storyline behind it. Sports I have never heard of (ok, I exaggerate slightly) will suddenly be on the TV because some underdog team/person has a shot at some obscure achievement, regardless of gender.
This also touches on a big pet peeve of mine -- women's sports are in kind of a chicken and egg situation at the moment, I think. Can you imagine if the WNBA, for example, got the same level of marketing dollars and general promotion as the NBA? How much would that affect the pipeline of players if suddenly young women realized they could actually make a good living playing basketball? What if there was extensive media coverage of women athletes, instead of of their coaches (I'm looking at you, stuff like this)? What if you were clobbered with ads for WNBA games during primetime?
How do we expect women's sports to magically get amazing with minimal investment?
I mean, the Liberty already do pretty good:
https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/sports/nyliberty-attendance.html
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I saw this on the skidiva facebook page, and have been banging my head on the wall that it was on a women's ski blog named "Lady Parts."
If you don't like it, stop posing in bikinis, stop being suggestive, just stop. I'm afraid the horse has left the barn, in this insta world, but no one is literally forcing female athletes to plaster naked photos of themselves all over social media, or to bare themselves in magazine shoots. Will they make more money in bikinis? Yes, and that sucks. But this is no different from any other sport or whatever else. Sex sells.
If you truly want things to change, you have to change how things are being done. If you want to be seen as an athlete, then be an athlete, not a swimsuit model. Kelly Clark is seen pretty much "as an athlete," because she is a normal-looking person who poses in baggy pants and jeans.
I am not blaming the girls in the video, as I feel like they are trying to say the same thing, but it's hard to confront the big dogs in your sport. There was a video last season from some pro who actually addressed this, feeling some guilt about sexy photog shoots ... that's where it will have to come from. Not men, not bystanders. There is no reason the big dogs can't band together, as women, and put their feet down and just say, This isn't helpful. But right now, it's every bikini for herself, imo.
(I am not blaming the victim here, for "dressing like she wanted it." There is a difference, which I think most of you understand, but I can go into it if necessary. Basically, if you dress like you want to be ogled, you'll be ogled. That doesn't mean it's ok to cross the line. Any line. )
If you don't like it, stop posing in bikinis, stop being suggestive, just stop. I'm afraid the horse has left the barn, in this insta world, but no one is literally forcing female athletes to plaster naked photos of themselves all over social media, or to bare themselves in magazine shoots. Will they make more money in bikinis? Yes, and that sucks. But this is no different from any other sport or whatever else. Sex sells.
If you truly want things to change, you have to change how things are being done. If you want to be seen as an athlete, then be an athlete, not a swimsuit model. Kelly Clark is seen pretty much "as an athlete," because she is a normal-looking person who poses in baggy pants and jeans.
I am not blaming the girls in the video, as I feel like they are trying to say the same thing, but it's hard to confront the big dogs in your sport. There was a video last season from some pro who actually addressed this, feeling some guilt about sexy photog shoots ... that's where it will have to come from. Not men, not bystanders. There is no reason the big dogs can't band together, as women, and put their feet down and just say, This isn't helpful. But right now, it's every bikini for herself, imo.
(I am not blaming the victim here, for "dressing like she wanted it." There is a difference, which I think most of you understand, but I can go into it if necessary. Basically, if you dress like you want to be ogled, you'll be ogled. That doesn't mean it's ok to cross the line. Any line. )
Skier31
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I agree!
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@pinto classic surf humor ;0
I find some of the "speak" in the film to be disingenuous.
at 5:00 she begins to talk about not competing at the same level as men, the 'jumps are set so much lower for the girls."
Really? I've never seen a park crew "lower" the jumps/rails or boxes - what they bring out new rails and boxes or build up the snow while everyone waits around? Shave the 22 foot 1/2 pipe down just for the girls? Any USASA event I've been at same features for everyone 6 to 60+. Male or female. You choose your line/ jump/ take a smaller or bigger option.
Their young, its kind of an annoying video, the issue has existed for ever in multiple sports. been there done that blah blah blah.
Try Hunter / Jumper horse riding competitions if you can't handle male dominated sports. 90% female. can't bitch about that.
There is a similar issue though that has perplexed me for some time. While I appreciate the unique female perspective of SkiDiva and the many things it has to offer, I am always curious about Diva's who post much more "technical" questions on gender neutral ski forums. To me this rings hollow-if we really are at the same level as men, why not ask the same level of questions on a female forum? sorry for the hijack.
I find some of the "speak" in the film to be disingenuous.
at 5:00 she begins to talk about not competing at the same level as men, the 'jumps are set so much lower for the girls."
Really? I've never seen a park crew "lower" the jumps/rails or boxes - what they bring out new rails and boxes or build up the snow while everyone waits around? Shave the 22 foot 1/2 pipe down just for the girls? Any USASA event I've been at same features for everyone 6 to 60+. Male or female. You choose your line/ jump/ take a smaller or bigger option.
Their young, its kind of an annoying video, the issue has existed for ever in multiple sports. been there done that blah blah blah.
Try Hunter / Jumper horse riding competitions if you can't handle male dominated sports. 90% female. can't bitch about that.
There is a similar issue though that has perplexed me for some time. While I appreciate the unique female perspective of SkiDiva and the many things it has to offer, I am always curious about Diva's who post much more "technical" questions on gender neutral ski forums. To me this rings hollow-if we really are at the same level as men, why not ask the same level of questions on a female forum? sorry for the hijack.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think that can be as simple as casting a wider net in order to get a question answered.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That's what I was going to say.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
People here can post on other posts. A lot of people can't post here.
Christy
Angel Diva
I've been interested to see how unlike Lindsey, Julia, or so many other ski racers, Mikaela Shiffren is not doing the sexy stuff. I've never seen her in a bikini--I'm trying to remember the last time I didn't see Lindsey or Julia on social media in a bikini or sexy pose. She sure doesn't seem to have suffered for it--she has tons of sponsors and probably gets more attention in the ski world right than any other skier...she isn't a household name like Lindsey but she also hasn't put in the years and 4 Olympics like Lindsey has. The most skin you might see from her is in workout shorts or a tank. I'd never argue with the idea that sex sells, that woman face more pressure for this, etc, but here we have a great example of someone that isn't playing that game and doesn't seem to be suffering at all for it. So I'd agree--just don't do it if you don't want to. (And hey, if you love doing it and aren't complaining about it, whatever. I'm not going to judge someone for that).
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The only bikini I recall from Shiffrin was doing the ALS ice bucket thing. And ... no, of course she isn't suffering, but she's currently the best skier in the world. Plus, she is/was very young. (I still don't see her trying to become a sexpot, but she was until recently just a teenager.)
I am about the world's most live-and-let-live person, and normally I totally agree with you about do it if you want, don't if you don't -- but at what point to we women have an obligation to each other? At what point do we say, You know, this just isn't helping the world see women as anything but objects? That's already enough of a problem.
On the flip side, I get that athletes are proud of their bodies. I love seeing them, too ... as I've said before, the ESPN Body Issue is one of my favorites. But it's not overtly sexual like some other stuff is. And with skiers, well, tennis players, swimmers, figure skaters, they all compete in skimpy clothing already. I kinda see where you want to get out of the head-to-toe clothing and be proud of yourself.
It's a quite complicated issue.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Don't get me started on women's sand volleyball "uniforms."
Christy
Angel Diva
She's 22, that's plenty old enough to get sexy if she thought she had to. I don't have any quibbles with your points, this was to illustrate that the following doesn't have to be true. I don't think people are more focused on how Mikaela looks than on her talent, and she doesn't pander to people that are interested in her looks.
It certainly helps that she is the best and while like I said I don't want to judge those who want to get skimpy, I do wonder and kind of hope she can provide a new model. Maybe show other women that you don't have to take off your clothes to get noticed.
I should also say I'm at work and didn't watch the video, so there may be salient points I'm missing.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I should ask around my niece a little more. I know that she much much prefers MS to LV, as far as who her role model is. You're right, could be time for a backlash?
