Lets say, I'm a ski manufacturer and I want to know what you want

[SnowHot]

Seriously, and honestly I have been thinking about the dilemma of ski manufacturers and the target groups they serve.
But for this purpose, lets target the woman skier.
All skill levels
All terrain
All encompassing woman skier.

So, I'm manufacturer starting a womans line.
I'll assume I want something for the upper beginner/lower intermediate skier(assuming that the beginners will start with unisex rentals)
So, for this category I'll have a nice carver, soft flex, and basic base/edge construction, somewhere around high 60's in the waist, with a moderate/generous tip and tail.(not quite a hypercarver, but a significant carver.

Next, I want to target the progressive intermediate. A woman who wants to enhance her skiing skills and excitement, so I'll want to add a more progressive base/edge construction to the beginner/intermediate ski, to make it a tad quicker, and then add a nice midfat to the line up. Something in the hight 70's in the waist?

When we get into the advanced skier category, that is easy. Something quick, carver driven, something midfat to take 'her' to the park and in the bumps and woods, maybe something fat like a mid to high 90's for those powder days. something soft enough for the light weight but stiff enough for the power crud busting she devil!
This is the funnest group of female skiers to design for so we could get really crazy.


Probably the biggest question of all.........What does the Expert woman skier want?
Does she want a ski that is womens specific and is progressive for the female skier who takes on the expert terrain, and back country with a "bring it on" vengence, or is this the woman skier who won't look at a women's specific ski because the Unisex line has already answered the call?

I used to be the woman who wouldn't look at the women's line up because it was soft, weak and not something that would make me grin.
With the industry changes and the profound way that the ski manufacturers are answering the call of the advanced women skier, I'm looking for more............and more.

With the addition of the Women's line up with Volkl,
Fuego - Quick
Aura - midfat fun
and the 09 addition of the Women's version of the Gotama(name?), ............will the expert female buy "her Got" or will she walk on by and get the unisex version?

Meantime, the Nordica Olympia line has answered the call in a profound way with the
Firefox - Quick (way too much fun)
Conquor - Nice midfat
But where Nordica has left off is that they don't get out of the system ski area, and into the twin tips or fat skis. Are they missing out on a part of the women's market.

[tradygirl]

Originally Posted by SnowHot

Probably the biggest question of all.........What does the Expert woman skier want?
Does she want a ski that is womens specific and is progressive for the female skier who takes on the expert terrain, and back country with a "bring it on" vengence, or is this the woman skier who won't look at a women's specific ski because the Unisex line has already answered the call?

I think I would start looking seriously at women's skis when they made them as aggressive as the men's all-mountain skis. I know there has been some huge advances in the women's ski market, but if I'm in the market for a new fat powder ski or big mountain ski, I'm still going unisex. Show me a women's-specific ski that can compete with the Gotama, Hellbent, Line Prophet, Lotus, Praxis, and Zealot. The thing is, I don't know if it's really necessary to make a women's ski for women that ski at that high of a level, unless they want different graphics or something (it would be kind of cool if they made two different graphics for some of these skis).

It's an interesting question, because I do think the industry has created some great women's skis in the beginner-advanced range that do have some value. Is there room for improvement in the expert category?

[Ski Diva]

I'm not sure I agree with you about the unisex skis, Tradygirl. I want an upper end ski, but I'm considerably smaller than a 210 lb. 6 ft. male who may be looking at the same ski. My physical capabilities and his are just waaay too different. So yes, I'd like to see upper end women's skis, targeted to women like me. (And I don't mean just paint 'em pink and slap on some flowers!)

[mollmeister]

Originally Posted by Ski Diva

I'm not sure I agree with you about the unisex skis, Tradygirl. I want an upper end ski, but I'm considerably smaller than a 210 lb. 6 ft. male who may be looking at the same ski. My physical capabilities and his are just waaay too different. So yes, I'd like to see upper end women's skis, targeted to women like me. (And I don't mean just paint 'em pink and slap on some flowers!)

What she said.

I am just too small for many of the high end all-mountain/big-mountain unisex skis.

I am strong and fit and a good skier, but something that is, in its smallest length, designed for a small GUY just isn't going to flex for me. A really small guy is maybe 140-150 and 5'6"+. I'm 5'2" on a good day and usually about 110lbs.

I want something that's going to perform just as well as the top end fatty men's skis. But *in my size.*

[SnowHot]

I really like where this is going.
Like SkiDiva and Moll, I'm smaller, but also very muscular and I don't like a soft ski. So........I tend to go more along the line of thinking tradygirl posted.
I would love to try a Womens' Gotama next to a Unisex version and see if they really gave the women something strong to ski on or fluffed up a perfectly good ski.

One more thing.........I was extremely impressed with the Elan Wave Spice because it is burly and will attack anything that the mens version of that same ski will do.
I'm also equally impressed with the Blizzard Eos with its brilliant performance. Both of these skis have a vertical sidewall and solid construction.
This year Blizzard has dropped the eos with a promise of something to replace it in two years.
It better be amazing if I have to wait two years!!!!

[tradygirl]

Originally Posted by Ski Diva

I'm not sure I agree with you about the unisex skis, Tradygirl. I want an upper end ski, but I'm considerably smaller than a 210 lb. 6 ft. male who may be looking at the same ski. My physical capabilities and his are just waaay too different. So yes, I'd like to see upper end women's skis, targeted to women like me. (And I don't mean just paint 'em pink and slap on some flowers!)

Ahh......but therein lies my point! You are not in the market for a big ski like that if you don't want to ski the same ski your husband is on at a shorter length. Some women are in the market for that. And those women cannot find a big, fat, stiff ski for women specifically. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Is it necessary to build a women's-specific big-mountain ski when the unisex ski is really the one we're looking for anyway?

I for one love the idea of offering the same ski (or very similar) with different graphics, maybe available in more applicable lengths (170, 175, 180, 185). A Pink Prophet with a shirtless man on it? Sign me up!

What do you consider an "upper end" ski? Why don't the unisex versions of those skis appeal to you other than length?

[SnowHot]

Originally Posted by tradygirl

Ahh......but therein lies my point! You are not in the market for a big ski like that if you don't want to ski the same ski your husband is on at a shorter length. Some women are in the market for that. And those women cannot find a big, fat, stiff ski for women specifically. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Is it necessary to build a women's-specific big-mountain ski when the unisex ski is really the one we're looking for anyway?

I for one love the idea of offering the same ski (or very similar) with different graphics, maybe available in more applicable lengths (170, 175, 180, 185). A Pink Prophet with a shirtless man on it? Sign me up!

What do you consider an "upper end" ski? Why don't the unisex versions of those skis appeal to you other than length?

This is like you're reading my mind!!

[mollmeister]

Originally Posted by tradygirl

What do you consider an "upper end" ski? Why don't the unisex versions of those skis appeal to you other than length?

That's it, I guess. I just want them to make them shorter. I could give a cr*p about women's graphics. And I hate the girly names. I just want to be taken seriously enough, even at my small size, that they make a burly ski short enough for me. But many of them are 170 at the shortest, and many don't even go that short. . . and if they do, the short lengths are impossible to find.

Give me a great ski-- unisex is fine. . . just make it short enough for me to flex it.

[altagirl]

Originally Posted by mollmeister

That's it, I guess. I just want them to make them shorter. I could give a cr*p about women's graphics. And I hate the girly names. I just want to be taken seriously enough, even at my small size, that they make a burly ski short enough for me. But many of them are 170 at the shortest, and many don't even go that short. . . and if they do, the short lengths are impossible to find.

Give me a great ski-- unisex is fine. . . just make it short enough for me to flex it.

How short do you want them?

I'm definitely in the generic unisex size range (175-185 for my off-piste skis) so it's not an issue for me. My issue with women's skis is that they generally don't make them long enough.

[Ski Diva]

Originally Posted by mollmeister

That's it, I guess. I just want them to make them shorter. I could give a cr*p about women's graphics. And I hate the girly names. I just want to be taken seriously enough, even at my small size, that they make a burly ski short enough for me. But many of them are 170 at the shortest, and many don't even go that short. . . and if they do, the short lengths are impossible to find.

Give me a great ski-- unisex is fine. . . just make it short enough for me to flex it.

Yep.

[jaydog]

What I like best about women's skis is the forward mounted binding. I'm small and light but carry a greater percentage of weight on my legs compared to my upper body. I need a stiffer more advanced ski, but I've found that the forward mounted binding makes staying in the front seat much easier. I am also not a fan of flowery graphics and cutesy names.

So yeah, I'd love to see a ski designed for the strongest most aggressive women skiers.

[Quiver Queen]

Originally Posted by tradygirl

I think I would start looking seriously at women's skis when they made them as aggressive as the men's all-mountain skis....... Show me a women's-specific ski that can compete ...... It's an interesting question, because I do think the industry has created some great women's skis in the beginner-advanced range that do have some value. Is there room for improvement in the expert category?

I was one of us who thought women's skis were limp imitations of the real thing. But all doubts I had about a woman's ski being able to compete with men's/uni's was put to rest when I demo'd with a bunch of men in a testosterone battle last spring. I was not left behind in the least, I did not have any lack of confidence in any of the women's skis I was on, I was astonished at how incredibly similar one of the women's skis (Volkl Fuego) felt compared to an expert men's ski (Volkl Race Tiger RC), and I walked away very impressed.

Some of the sports best women (Deb Armstrong, Didi Lawrence, and many others) ski on women's skis, love them, ski them by choice, and certainly wouldn't ski them if they didn't perform. I would think they know a thing our two about skis!

Of my quiver, half are women's and half are unisex. Last week I saw some excellent male skiers on women's skis, who said they just loved the feel of them. Just goes to show that in skis, "different strokes for different folks" certainly applies. That's why you have to know your own style and skills, know what you want, and.......demo!.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, just as in unisex skis.

[abc]

Last week I saw some excellent male skiers on women's skis, who said they just loved the feel of them. Just goes to show that in skis, "different strokes for different folks" certainly applies.

Goes to show it's silly to call them "women specific" skis.

There's room for improvement in skis alright. Not just for women. But mostly for skis who're not build to the "average" body size & type.

[lynseyf]

I think they should stop selling skis as female or male specific and instead make them more for the weight of the skier. I am 5'9 and about 190lbs, I am not pear shaped, I have broad shoulders, slim hips and am busty so I don't see how my centre of gravity can be lower than some guy with a beer belly. I have not tried Volkl or Nordica WS skis and will when I get the chance but the K2, Head and salomen ones I have tried haven't blown me away. I agree with the person who said we need more definitions, to say this ski will suit all women and this all men is silly as you only have to look at a selection of women to see how different we all are and we all want different things from a ski.

[SnowHot]

This is one thing I have noticed Lyns.
My husband and I ski the same terrain, and though we have different weights and strengths, its nice to have a few pair of skis that we can both ski.

I agree with the person who said we need more definitions, to say this ski will suit all women and this all men is silly as you only have to look at a selection of women to see how different we all are and we all want different things from a ski.

Look at this site and how many different women have different ski/brand preferences depending on the feel of the ski(s).

I would dare say that several women on this site have the ability and/or potential to utilize the full potential of many unisex skis, while many men could find some of the women's skis to be more fitting to their ski "style".

[ISki]

I just wish one manufacturer would take a closer look at the market. You can ski from age 3-80, say, so it's more than just beginner, intermediate, and expert. Technique matters and it affects the type of the ski that one needs. There's more than one way to turn a pair of skis.