What Would You Change About The Ski Industry?

[ski diva]

I found an interesting blog post by Miss Snow It All about five things she would change about the ski industry. You can read it here.

So I'm wondering: if you could change something about the ski industry, what would it be?

 

[Ringrat]

Interesting. Some things on that list were expected and some were most definitely not. Maybe that's because I'm not a ski industry insider. All very good points though.

 

[Pequenita]

More paid ski patrol and better benefits (life and health insurance) for them.

 

[mustski]

I would like to see more of a family focus in the ski industry. It's become almost impossible for families to afford to ski anymore. I would like to see more season passes that include lesson packages for kids. Cut rate kids passes are great but the cost of instruction is prohibitive. I am a huge believer in professional instruction. Ironically, i didn't earn enough as a professional educator to afford the amount of ski instruction I would have liked for my son and mostly taught him myself. I must be a pretty good ski instructor because he skis terrain I won't dare to brave.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Agree with @Ringrat .

Something I've been thinking about, that goes along with affordable housing, is "golden handcuffs" for ski pros (instructors and patrol). In some industries, "golden handcuffs" aren't uncommon - you get paid a large sum of money upfront, contingent on working for that company for X years. (I don't know what happens if you quit and try to bankrupt out of it.) Anyway, imagine a world where a resort offers a ski pro a down payment on a house in exchange for X years working for the resort. This would attract people who are serious about making a living in the ski industry (as opposed to spending a winter on snow between college and real life). Ski resorts might not have the retention problems they do, and skiers would benefit from more experienced instructors and patrol.

Of course, it's a pretty big step when you consider that snow pros aren't generally being paid a living wage in the first place.

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Agree with @Pequenita - better paid ski patrol, benefits etc. Better paid instructors.

I'd love for family season passes to be affordable. We're a two professor household and we have trouble keeping on top of costs.

 

[mustski]

I think there is something really hinky in the world of ski school. Instruction is outrageously priced and instructors are underpaid. It's time for a new paradigm.

 

[veronicarella]

Agree with @mustski

Living in a ski town, I've been thinking a lot about this topic, as well as the other related forum post re: "Skiers Push for Change After Accident."

Maybe we, passionate ski divas, could be the one to make a movement. I envision a documentary on the "hands off" attitude of the ski resort when it comes to safety. That is, the skiers assume ALL responsibilities when they choose to ski on the hills versus how much is preventable if the mountain, for example, didn't oversold the day tickets causing overcrowding on the slopes. I've also heard multiple accounts of questionable business practices, and since these are second hand accounts, I won't post them publicly without evidence. Anyone out there who are documentary specialists? Or know how to get something like this started?

 

[mustski]

I grew up learning to ski as a member of a ski school in Montreal, Rod Roy which I believe is still going strong. This was not associated with one particular resort; rather, parents signed their kids up for a 10 Saturday ski club. The club bussed us to different resorts in Quebec and Vermont (trickier since 911, I assume). We had lessons in the morning and free skied in the afternoon. Parents had easy weekends due to exhausted kids. A whole generation learned to ski. It was win-win! I assume the instructors were certified. We need more independent instruction. I would be a lot happier putting $200 in the pocket of an excellent instructor than in the till of the resort.

 

[veronicarella]

I grew up learning to ski as a member of a ski school in Montreal, Rod Roy which I believe is still going strong. This was not associated with one particular resort; rather, parents signed their kids up for a 10 Saturday ski club. The club bussed us to different resorts in Quebec and Vermont (trickier since 911, I assume). We had lessons in the morning and free skied in the afternoon. Parents had easy weekends due to exhausted kids. A whole generation learned to ski. It was win-win! I assume the instructors were certified. We need more independent instruction. I would be a lot happier putting $200 in the pocket of an excellent instructor than in the till of the resort.

Interesting! Each resort operates differently, but to generalize, my understanding is that more European ski resorts are owned by the government so ski schools are independent, whereas North American ski resorts are privately owned so they could set their own rules while they enjoy monopoly of the region since mountains are not movable geographically. The low instructor rate is a function market supply and demand, so as long as there are instructors willing to work for the low rates, the discrepancy between the pricing and the wage will remain. Is union the answer?

 

[mustski]

No. Union pays all instructors of a level the same regardless of expertise. Free market would allow instructors to act as independent contractors and set their own fees. I don't mean to replace resort instructors. However, those who want to start their own business, much like everyone else in the ski industry, should be able to do so.

For example, I found @nopoleskier to be an excellent communicator and would enjoy a week of instruction with her. I should be able to negotiate a price for instruction at the mountain of my choice. Since I live in CA, she should be able to negotiate lodging, flight, instruction, etc.

We should be able to hold diva west and fly in the instructor of our choice for a clinic.

 

[pinto]

I'm sure there are many other things, but I agree with increasing patrol wages and privatizing ski school. Some of the things she mentioned are a little abstract: although they would be nice, I'm not sure how you go about it.

 

[SnowHot]

More paid ski patrol and better benefits (life and health insurance) for them.

This!
Also, I'd like to see better pay for front line workers so that the first experience the guests have is with experienced staff who have the tools to help make the entry into the sport one that makes them want to come back.

We, sadly, put the least experienced people, with the lowest pay, on the front line to dole out a questionable first day on the hill for beginners.

 

[SkiBam]

I grew up learning to ski as a member of a ski school in Montreal, Rod Roy which I believe is still going strong. This was not associated with one particular resort; rather, parents signed their kids up for a 10 Saturday ski club. The club bussed us to different resorts in Quebec and Vermont (trickier since 911, I assume). We had lessons in the morning and free skied in the afternoon. Parents had easy weekends due to exhausted kids. A whole generation learned to ski. It was win-win! I assume the instructors were certified. We need more independent instruction. I would be a lot happier putting $200 in the pocket of an excellent instructor than in the till of the resort.

Had to reply to this as I teach for Rod Roy (Tuesday adult program). The ski school still seems to be going strong (though I'm sure overall numbers are lower than in the past). Generally their weekend programs for teens and adults go at least once to Jay - they decided against that this year as, quite frankly, nobody wanted to cross the border with a bus-load of people (of many different backgrounds).

Rod Roy is, I think, one of the few ski schools that will hire instructors without certification - but only, I think, for the kiddie program. The ski school has its own insurance and provides training for instructors, who are encouraged to become certified. In the adult program, all the instructors have at least a level 2, a couple with level 3 and this year one with a level 4. I can pretty much guarantee that if you join the Tuesday program, you'll get excellent instruction (says she modestly).

By the way, @mustski, Rod himself is still going strong and skiing well at age 80. His two sons run the business now.

 

[ski diva]

It's interesting that no one has commented yet on the gear side of things. That's as much as part of the ski industry as the resort side. I agree -- high ticket prices, low pay for instructors and patrollers are indeed a problem. But what about gear? What would you change in that? For example, there seems to be a disconnect (by some ski manufacturers) on making longer women's skis. Or in some apparel makers in producing ski pants in shorter lengths or jackets in larger sizes or with as many pockets as men's (a pet peeve of mine). And on the retail side, better training is needed in shops to 1) treat women as valid customers who aren't just interested in a ski's graphics, but how it's actually made and the way it skis, and 2) are more knowledgeable about women's gear.

 

[newboots]

Had to reply to this as I teach for Rod Roy (Tuesday adult program). The ski school still seems to be going strong (though I'm sure overall numbers are lower than in the past). Generally their weekend programs for teens and adults go at least once to Jay - they decided against that this year as, quite frankly, nobody wanted to cross the border with a bus-load of people (of many different backgrounds).

So sad that a long tradition for Canadian skiers has been interrupted like this!

 

[EeveeCanSki]

I would love to see more ladies on the floor of shops in my immediate area who can have a good technical conversation with other ladies, especially ones looking to buy skis. At my closest store there are women in managerial positions and working the apparel, but not many fitting boots or discussing the features of equipment. The ladies do give great first-hand advice per the clothing though--now if there were some more who could share experiences with various hardware!

It got to the point that I wouldn't go into my nearest store alone unless my BF was with me, depending upon who was working that day. I had an unfortunate experience in there when I was describing the performance of a ski I originally purchased from them that wasn't working well for me, and it seemed if I used proper tech terms per the sport or the skis themselves, the more contentious the conversation became with the male associate we were talking to. It may have just been that person, but he didn't seem to want to engage in a way that was educational and instead became kind of defensive. He was much less this way toward my BF when my issue was reiterated. On the other hand, the guy who sold me my boots seemed very aware and sensitive to what a lady may need and what he's seen with the women he's fitted (i.e., a lot of mixed-width feet), and he was impressed I was so focused on fit over the boot color--I guess that may not have been typical in his experience.

I think we all (guy or gal) appreciate a little flair on our gear--but sometimes I'm not sure that ski shops always know the best way to talk to someone, especially a female, who is more interested in how well the gear will serve her purpose and skiing style over its aesthetics. We're a smart demographic wanting to put time and money into this industry, and I know I'm much more likely to do so when I can have a meaningful conversation with those within it who can take me seriously.

 

[QCskier]

Had to reply to this as I teach for Rod Roy (Tuesday adult program). The ski school still seems to be going strong (though I'm sure overall numbers are lower than in the past). Generally their weekend programs for teens and adults go at least once to Jay - they decided against that this year as, quite frankly, nobody wanted to cross the border with a bus-load of people (of many different backgrounds).

Rod Roy is, I think, one of the few ski schools that will hire instructors without certification - but only, I think, for the kiddie program. The ski school has its own insurance and provides training for instructors, who are encouraged to become certified. In the adult program, all the instructors have at least a level 2, a couple with level 3 and this year one with a level 4. I can pretty much guarantee that if you join the Tuesday program, you'll get excellent instruction (says she modestly).

By the way, @mustski, Rod himself is still going strong and skiing well at age 80. His two sons run the business now.

The Y in Montreal also used to operate a similar program but they had to shut it down because it was no longer profitable. I learned to ski through them. I also did the Rod Roy Sunday Adult program this year to improve my skills. The added bonus is that they provide transportation to the hills. I wish that there were more programs like this because they make skiing more accessible to people who don't have a means of getting out to the hill on their own. You also get to discover a bunch of different hills which is great when you're starting out and don't really know which ones are worthwhile going to.

I also have to agree with the others who think that there should be more paid patrollers. I feel like I didn't see many patrolling the slopes this season.

 

[SnowHot]

It's interesting that no one has commented yet on the gear side of things. That's as much as part of the ski industry as the resort side. I agree -- high ticket prices, low pay for instructors and patrollers are indeed a problem. But what about gear? What would you change in that? For example, there seems to be a disconnect (by some ski manufacturers) on making longer women's skis. Or in some apparel makers in producing ski pants in shorter lengths or jackets in larger sizes or with as many pockets as men's (a pet peeve of mine). And on the retail side, better training is needed in shops to 1) treat women as valid customers who aren't just interested in a ski's graphics, but how it's actually made and the way it skis, and 2) are more knowledgeable about women's gear.

I think the changes in gear have been incredible over the past few years and I'm seeing changes that are making it better so I wouldn't tamper with it.....well, with one exception. I'd like to see the new binding technology get it together on the Walk to Ride/Grip Walk/MNC. Figure it out and make it one thing that works with all boots so that people aren't so freaking confused about their boot/binding interface.

 

[mustski]

So sad that a long tradition for Canadian skiers has been interrupted like this!

I'm sure it's the passport hassle. What parent wants to send their child on a ski bus with their passport? Kids lose everything and aCanaduan passport is gold on the black market!