Waterproof & Breathable, how do different fabrics compare?

[marzNC]

For a long time, the only waterproof and breathable fabric I knew about was Gore-tex. Now there are several options. A few are only used by one brand, like Marmot, while four are used by more than one brand of outerwear. If you're curious, Gear Patrol has an article called "Waterproof Breathable Technologies Explained". The four covered are Gore-Tex, NeoShell, eVent, Schoeller, and Dermizax NX. Examples of jackets using the different fabrics are included.

 

[santacruz skier]

I bet @geargrrl could add to this.

 

[geargrrl]

Short version, Neoshell is AMAZING. Get it if you can.

 

[marzNC]

Short version, Neoshell is AMAZING. Get it if you can.

Good to know! From the article, Marmot and LL Bean have jackets with Polartec Neoshell. Those are brands that work for me and my daughter since we are petite. There is a new LL Bean Outlet in Queenbury (near Lake George). That's become a regular stop when we go to Lake Placid.

 

[ski diva]

Short version, Neoshell is AMAZING. Get it if you can.

What makes Neoshell better than the others, @geargrrl ?

 

[santacruz skier]

I'm on the real petite size. Eddie Bauer extra small is really too big for me. @geargrrl any suggestions? I got a great bargain ($159) regular price $850 on a Mountain Force soft shell that is a size 34 and a great fit. I'm looking for a waterproof shell that will fit me with pit zips and breathable . Any ideas? Arc Teryx is too long... I'm only 5'`1. BF has Trew Gear 3 layer shell and really likes it, but I like a womens fit and not a baggy jacket. I've been looking for awhile and haven't come up with anything . I do have a Patagonia goretex nano insulated jacket for skiing and a Rossignol insulated jacket but not a technical shell.. most fit like boxes on me. My older Isis shell is not very technical and no pit zips. I bought and returned a 3 layer Fly low shell as did nothing for me and was huge in an extra small....Any ideas? Kjus fits me well as bought some pants on sale but jackets are pretty darn pricey (in the $600 range).... Like the brand that @ski diva blogged about on Tuesday but colors are a bit limited. Well, actually I like 2 of the 4 colors. What did you think of those?

 

[marzNC]

Hmm, so Neoshell has been around for a while. But was introduced more for other activities like climbing, hiking, biking than snowsports. Came across an article from 2011 about 10 jackets with Polartec Neoshell.

In the overview of the Marmot Women's Cody Bowl jacket on the Marmot website, it says "this ingenious fabric breathes easily negating the need for PitZips." In general, Marmot jackets fit me reasonably well. I'll be paying attention to whether or not Neoshell is used in the Marmot jackets I try on in the future.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Other than weight for extreme backpacking, I can't think of a reason I would take the chance on a jacket claiming not to need pit zips. Especially since I use them for temperature adjustment.

 

[marzNC]

Other than weight for extreme backpacking, I can't think of a reason I would take the chance on a jacket claiming not to need pit zips. Especially since I use them for temperature adjustment.

In a thread elsewhere on the same topic, saw comments from someone (male) who never had issues with no pit zips when he was using a Marmot Neoshell jacket. His problem with that Marmot wasn't a good fit.

I rarely need to open pit zips except during spring skiing. Have a sense that the Neoshell fabric moves better so can be a bit more comfortable than other waterproof/breathable fabrics.

 

[bounceswoosh]

In a thread elsewhere on the same topic, saw comments from someone (male) who never had issues with no pit zips when he was using a Marmot Neoshell jacket. His problem with that Marmot wasn't a good fit.

I rarely need to open pit zips except during spring skiing. Have a sense that the Neoshell fabric moves better so can be a bit more comfortable than other waterproof/breathable fabrics.

Yeah, everyone has different needs =)

 

[marzNC]

Interesting test of four different technologies. The tester has used the different jackets and has comments based on his experience.

 

[geargrrl]

Sorry I haven't had a lot of time for this. I love Neoshell for more high aerobic sports like cycling and nordic skiing. I'm not sure how it would work as a a substitute hard shell. I'll try and catch up to the articles/videos. One has to watch out for obfuscation with these things, ya know.

 

[Christy]

I wish there were a way to tell which fabric held up best. I've never had an issue with waterproofing in any new jacket I've had. But I'm always frustrated a few years down the road when I still love the jacket but it's ability to repel moisture (even when using those technical washing products) has deteriorated. I have a high end Spyder that I've had for I think 3-4 years that just soaks up water. It doesn't even pretend to repel it anymore.

 

[geargrrl]

It is the treatment of the surface that doesn't hold up, not the fabric itself. The fabric is the fibers, the surface chemical treatment is what determines durable water repellent (DWR). DWR varies hugely in quality by manufacturer and has nothing to do with the fabric. Sure it can be refreshed and retreated, but it does have an end lifespan determine that is separate from how long the actual fabric may last.

 

[bounceswoosh]

It is the treatment of the surface that doesn't hold up, not the fabric itself. The fabric is the fibers, the surface chemical treatment is what determines durable water repellent (DWR). DWR varies hugely in quality by manufacturer and has nothing to do with the fabric. Sure it can be refreshed and retreated, but it does have an end lifespan determine that is separate from how long the actual fabric may last.

So if this is the case, then is the claim of being a waterproof fabric (ie, Gore-Tex) just total bunk?

 

[geargrrl]

No of course not. But it's in degrees, and nothing lasts forever. Quality of item, age of it, manufacturing specs, how hard you use it or not, how it's cared for - all of these things affect both the water proof and the breathablityl

 

[bounceswoosh]

So is this right?

The fabric is waterproof for a while. The DWR it already has extends the life of the fabric's waterproofing. After they're both worn down, you need to reapply DWR.

?

 

[santacruz skier]

There's a place in Truckee (Tahoe) called TEC - Technical Equipmwnt Cleaners that will clean and re-waterproof jackets, pants, sleeping bags etc.. Super reasonable and so much easier than nik wax wash and waterproofing etc

 

[Christy]

It is the treatment of the surface that doesn't hold up, not the fabric itself. The fabric is the fibers, the surface chemical treatment is what determines durable water repellent (DWR). DWR varies hugely in quality by manufacturer and has nothing to do with the fabric. Sure it can be refreshed and retreated, but it does have an end lifespan determine that is separate from how long the actual fabric may last.

.

That makes sense. So now I wish there was a way for me to know how long the treatment will last. If it varies hugely by manufacturer, which also makes sense, it would be great if I knew whose DWR was going to hold up the longest. I'd pay more for it. To me there is no more important feature in a jacket, and I get so impatient when I read the list of features on a jacket the manufacturer touts--I mostly want to know how long will the g.d. thing last. @geargrrl if you have any hints about this or know what brands are best please do share!

 

[Christy]

There's a place in Truckee (Tahoe) called TEC - Technical Equipmwnt Cleaners that will clean and re-waterproof jackets, pants, sleeping bags etc.. Super reasonable and so much easier than nik wax wash and waterproofing etc

That's interesting...does it makes things good as new?