Question: Volkl Tierra vs Elan Wave Spice

[wave_spice]

Hi All,
So, I am in need of some advice. My specs: 32, 5'5-6, 150lbs, aggressive skier, love speed (but willing to sacrifice...), love skiing woods, used to love skiing everywhere. I took a 15 year hiatus from skiing. Used to be a ski-bum, worked at a ski shop, tuned skis, demoed skis for vendors etc, etc, and happily skied wherever I wanted (at least I did this in the West). Before I left the industry, shapes were just coming into the market and no one took them very seriously. NOW, well, now, urgh, I've been humbled by all the different specs and specialties out there....and I live in NE ("powder" just isn't the same).

OK, logistics out of the way. Last season my DH dragged me back into skiing and I started off demoing skis. K2-Lotta Luv seemed soft, Volkl Fuego seemed stiff but I demoed these in rental boots (yeah, I know, not very smart) After I purchased some happy ski boots (Technica forgot model #, fairly stiff, very happy with them) I demoed the Dynastar (didn't like, but they were more for the groomers...forgot the model) and Elan Wave spice.

Jay Peak was selling demos off at the end of last season. I demoed the Wave spice at 152 and 158. I fell in LOVE with the 152...then after talking with the guys in the shop they convinced me to try the 158 for a half day. I did. They were fast and fun...and out of confusion and a good deal, I rationalized that I would "out ski" the 152 so I bought the 158. I'm very unhappy with the 158. I've taken a couple of lessons but I still don't have the same comfort and confidence like I did on the 152's. I find the 158's heavy and hard to maneuver-especially in a tight line in the bumps. Hindsight, being 20/20 I should have stuck with the 152's and used the knowledge from demoing. I've been out about 10 times this season, I start off with some drill work/runs but I'm not feeling this ski, so I'm in the market for another pair (I'm think length of ~155 would be ideal).

Any suggestions? I'm leaning toward the Vokl Tierra/Fuego but will also demo the Dynastar Exclusive Legend and Fischer Vision Vapor (if I can find these) due to the recommendations here. Has anyone skied both the wave spice and the Volkl Tierra's? If so, any thoughts. My goal, is to be able to ski off piste and moguls with confidence.

Maybe, just maybe, my form really stinks, this is all in my head and I need to take more lessons? Ok, maybe that came off sarcastically, but seriously, is it perhaps just me? I know I'm not in the same shape I was 15 years ago, but I am still active...that's an option here too....all candor/advice is very appreciated. Thanks!

 

[michpc]

I just got the Tierras recently. I haven't been out on them much yet, but I can tell you a little bit of my impressions. Mine are 156 (I'm 5'4", 140lb). First off, they are stiff and fairly heavy; about 12lbs with bindings, but about the same weight as my old skis, so I don't mind, and I like stiff skis. I went with the Tierra because of Volkls reputation for crazy edge hold and also that their waist width would make them versatile in a variety of conditions.

Due to the stiffness, if you like bumps and don't want a quiver, I probably wouldn't recommend them, but I don't really ski real bumps, so don't take my word for it, try them . They like to go fast, hold an edge like glue on hard pack, and are NOT forgiving. If you get lazy and your form gets sloppy they like to put you on your butt. Makes me feel like a better skier the second I get on these; carving beautiful turns like crazy! Again, can't really comment on bumps or off piste, but we'll see how this weekend goes! I also bought a pair of cheap twin tips around the same time, and those are my play/relaxation skis.

Hope this helps some!

 

[wave_spice]

Thanks, for the info. The wave spice weights 15lbs. Does anyone know if 12-15 lbs is average? My DH has a pair of K2's coming in at ~7-1/2lbs....

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Okay. Maybe I can help here, if only for impressions. I’ve skied all these skis (except the Vision Vapor) and own one (Dynastar Exclusive Legend). I demo’d the Wave Spice in 158 and really liked them. Disadvantage: it was a light (6") powder day, and I got a full untracked run (what’s not to like?). This, as I recall, is a wider ski, +-80 under foot?? I think it might be the width that’s affecting you, not so much the length (although that might be a slight factor?). The Tierras are slightly narrower but stiff, as indicated above. I demo’d these in a variety of conditions and found them okay but a bit heavy for my skiing style/body weight (120). Also a 156. Demo’d the Fuegos immediately after and found them tenacious on ice but not as happy in mixed conditions, also heavy feeling. My owned and go-to ski is a Dynastar Exclusive Legend 158 (08 - sidecut, etc., unchanged since 05). These skis will most definitely ski bumps (or I’m hallucinating!), and they are LIGHT. (Total weight dependent on chosen bindings but the flat ski is silly-light, as is the E Legend Powder) Definitely worth your while to demo, as I’ve said many times here that these are almost absurdly versatile skis. They are MUCH lighter in physical weight than K2's. I also demo’d the K2 Lotta Luv and liked them a great deal, but at my body weight, they required more speed and pressure control to really perform. My initial thought at demo re the E Legend: how can anything that weighs this little do anything? (Ha.) Bought them a month later.

I wouldn’t give up yet on the Wave Spice, as this is an ideal off-piste-type of ski. But if you have another demo opportunity, definitely try those you mentioned, preferably in the length you’d like to buy. It can make a difference, but I’m not sure how much. I’m leaning towards the width of the ski being an issue for you. If you don’t like the Wave Spice, I’m not sure the Tierra or Fuego are your best choices. Both are heavy, and the Fuego is definitely a front-side carver and won’t be as thrilled in powder/crud/bumps. But again and as always, this is such a personal preference kind of thing.

 

[wave_spice]

Thanks MaineSkiLady, excellent point about the width....forgotten how wide skis have gotten
I was able to ski in 12" of powder a couple of weeks ago and the elan's handled very nicely. Then I ventured into some pretty nice moguls and although I'm told that I ski them fine, I wasn't happy. I'm heading up to Sugarbush for the weekend so I'm going to scour the ski shops and the mountain for some dynastar EL's to demo.

 

[persee]

Seems I'm late to the party... But I do ski the Volkl Attiva AC3 (this was what they called the Tierra the first year they made it. Exactly the same ski as the Tierra, they had a great ski so why change anything other than the top sheet). I'm 5'4 and 125ish, 33yo and an athletic/aggressive skier. I've been skiing these puppies for a season and a half now (I bought them in March 07) and absolutely love them. I would say that I don't find them as punishing as the Fuego, because I wasn't as good a skier when I started on them, but can definitely agree with MichPC that they made me a much better skier. They really reward good form and if you ski them tentatively will make you miserable. They like speed and like you to really "ski" them. I don't notice weight in skis other than when I'm carrying them in from the parking lot so I can't comment on that. At my specs I am able to almost float them in powder (on the few occasions we get that in the East). I liked, but did not fall in lust with them the first day I skied them, but my love increased with each "date" and now we are a very happy couple. I have never skied any Elans, as I passed on the one opp I had to demo due to poor snow, so I can't compare them, but if you have any other questions on the Tierra please don't hesitate to ask!

 

[Heather]

I just wanted to add that I have noticed that skiers and ski shop personnel tend to encourage others to ski on skis that are longer. It only really matters what you like. FWIW, I have the Dynastar EL. Like you I was encouraged to buy in 158cm when I should've got the 152cm. I have skied Volkl Tierra 156cm they have a lot of energy and tons of grip. These would be incredible if you are someone who mostly carves their turns. I have skied Atomic Sugar Mama 150cm they also carved like crazy-longer turns-and were super stable. Long story but I don't care for the Legends. They just seem to be lacking energy. They are just ok for carving. They do well in deeper snow like 10 inches or so. But I don't like the 158cm length. I am 5'2" (157cm tall) and 125lb.

 

[wave_spice]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful help and advice.

I was able to ski the EL (158) on Saturday. First impressions weren't all that great but in the afternoon, I have to say that they really started to grow on me. I actually skied down a mogul run; I found a line and cruised
My only reservation with the EL was during a couple of icy patches...with that said, I feel my form getting tighter and I feel my "style" coming back. I really wanted to ski the EL on Sunday but it rained :mad:
So, now, I am just waiting for mother nature to cooperate, throw us some snow and colder temps. Someone recommended the K2 PE and the Lotta Luv. If I can find them to demo before my trip to Utah, I will...or else I think I may just stick with the EL. Right now I really feel like it's a great transitional ski for me to understand shapes before I go with something wider underfoot. Hmmm, kindof seems like I've already made a decision

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Glad to hear this! Yes, they DO like moguls
As to the ice, if you didn't like the EL's in those circumstances, you may not like the Lotta Luv, either. Last year, these were my 2 "finalists." What I was looking for was a ski that could make the transition from tracked-up/crud and powder bumps with hard pack in between. (after a 6" layer got tracked out) The EL's, at least to me, made this transition a little more easily. Lottas, being a heavier and slightly wider ski, also required (of me) to move along a little more briskly. Which was fine, too Ultimately, it came down to the Legend by a hair, with the best price being the chosen ski. (I'd still have the Lotta Luvs in a heart beat, especially for west.)

Very subtle fore/aft foot movements are required of the skier to keep the edge on very hard pack, which I've also discovered is the end to any/all chatter. I fooled around with this last week, driving the ski to chatter, then adjusting to eliminate. The Legends ski with a rather light touch. Those who are hard-driving and demanding can overpower/overturn it. Enjoy the ride!

 

[wave_spice]

Great point about the chatter. After reading here that the EL's may not like speed I definitely pushed them. I was happy in the speed department but noticed if I waivered in my balance they told me.

It's funny, demoing the EL's on Saturday gave me an appreciation for the wave spice. The elan's can break through crud and speed like a race car like nobody's business...but the EL's, well...it seems in my mind that would be similar to comparing a brother to a sister

 

[MaineSkiLady]

There's your waist width difference, right there. Also the fact that the EL is a light ski. Tried the 165? I have the EL Powder in a 165, and I could stand to gain 20+# to really get it to fire up. Which is why I'm on the (non-powder) EL 158, I'm kind of a lightweight, making lots of heavy, muscle 'em skis an awful lot of work for me (tiring....) - unless I'm moving VERY fast. Been down that route with early K2 shapes and discovered I was expending about twice as much energy as I needed to, the ski was just too long and heavy for me. I have no problem with the crud busting of the Legend because of my size. And DH clearly stole my EL Powders about 2 weeks ago!

 

[wave_spice]

I am contemplating the 165...but I'd like to demo it first. The 158 seemed a little short. Also, the problem I am having right now is that not many mountains around here seem to carry Dynastars :-(

Would you recommend getting the flat ski? If so, what binding would you use?

 

[wave_spice]

And DH clearly stole my EL Powders about 2 weeks ago!

So, did he give you a new budget for another set of skis?

 

[Heather]

If you want to get the Dynastars EL, look online. You can get 2008 or 2007 model (same ski) for waaaay cheap. levelninesports has them (2007 model, 158cm) for $234 and they sell the Look bindings that go with them.
The Fischer Vapors receive excellent reviews. SierraJim (sierraskis.com) says these are his favorite womans ski. I read in another thread on EpicSki that he recommends the Legends for up to a level 7 skier. The Vapors will be stiffer but I bet they have killer edge grip. The Vapors have almost identical sidecut as the Volkl Attiva Tierra. Anyhoo, just my $0.02. If you ski the Vapor please post a review. Good luck.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Ha! Of course! I just picked up a pair of 158 EL Powders on eBay for 126, waiting on bindings from same, through snowdealsnow/Todd (out of PA) FedEx, then will mount and pray for snow. We are Extreme Budget skiers here!! (i.e., 500+- for Volkl not my reality)

I've always bought flat, don't know much about the Fluid system now offered. I'm also a fan of Look bindings - the PX12 being a good one (check https://www.levelninesports.com/look-2006-px12-adjustable-ski-bindings-p-2164.html), but there are so many.....lots of Marker fans here as well. Since my DIN is only 5.5, a binding with a 3-10 DIN range is fine for me, so my EL's are mounted with Dynastar Exclusives (same as Look Nova), which keeps the weight of the package WAY down.

Maybe throw a request out to the general forum?? They have extensive binding knowledge and can offer their .02.

I'd just go with something that has a range where your DIN is ax mid-point and one that suits your budget. The EL, with a 75 waist, doesn't require a super-wide brake. (BTW, I've taken it in 18" of powder and NOT had a problem, much to my amazement...a day complete with face-shots, wow )

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Level nine currently offering the 07 model for 234 but only in a 158.

SierraJim (sierraskis.com) says these are his favorite womans ski. I read in another thread on EpicSki that he recommends the Legends for up to a level 7 skier.

Reviews are just all over the map on this ski. Per level nine sports: "Let's just start by saying, 'Its business time!' This ski was meant for the aggressive all-mountain female skiers out there. It performs best at above average speeds, so don't bother trying this ski if you stick exclusively to the groomers and keep your speed down.
The Exclusive Legend will float well in the powder and cuts through the crud with ease. The stiffer flex will hold an edge on firmer snow, so you can actually ski groomers when the powder is too cut up for your liking.
The target skier to be matched to this ski has solid form, can ski anywhere on the mountain without hesitation, prefers above average speeds and challenging terrain, and is just an overall ripper.
If this is too much ski for you, check out the other Exclusive series skis." https://www.levelninesports.com/dynastar-2007-exclusive-legend-womens-all-mountain-skis-158cm-p-3234.html

So it totally depends on what you read/who you believe. I think I'm somewhat past 7, frankly, but for me, the bottom line is that I don't weigh enough for some of these super-stiff skis, find them very tiring, and I've got a few years (if not downright decades) on many of you.....frankly, I don't think I keep anyone waiting. Only a few here can testify.
(BKH, where are you?? Does old MSL keep you waiting?)

 

[Heather]

If you are looking for the EL Powders, yes you can get them dirt cheap just about anywhere. Especially the green ones. And if that's the ski that rocks your world, then you are in luck. A few threads up you said you had the Powders in 165cm, then you bought them on ebay in 158cm also? Anyway the point is that Dynastars, in general, are just about the cheapest skis you can buy, so if you like them that's great.
A note on Volkls...yes they are very expensive...but if you are someone who PRIMARILY carves their turns (not twists, skids, etc) and skis fast these skis are at the top of the food chain and IMHO would be worth the $500 or more. For example, K2. I don't care for the way they ski so I wouldn't pay $99 for 5 pairs of 'em.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Oooo, I guess I don't know how to carve my turns
Yeah, they're pretty crappy, those skis made in Chamonix Valley, France (NOT China). Been to Europe lately? Lots of them there.
Wow, I drive a FORD, too, guess that puts me at the bottom of the food chain w/low life status.

Opting out of this discussion NOW.
All done.

 

[CMCM]

I don't know a thing about these particular skis, but I do have a few cents to throw in about ski length. I skied a couple of seasons on narrow waisted 150 Nordicas...I'm 5'7" and about 155#. They seemed squirrelly, I felt unstable on them, and I wanted to demo some things in a slightly longer ski, 153 to 156 probably. The skis I wanted to try were out, so I took out a pair of Salomons in a 162 length just for the heck of it, which I was sooooo sure were way too long and I didn't expect to like them at all. What a revelation! This particular day had the perfect snow for these skis, and I felt like a far better skier on them. Now I don't know if it was the extra length or the fact that these skis were wider overall (124-74-106), or a combination of both, but they were heavenly. I bought a pair. I had a chance to ski them maybe 5 or 6 more times last spring, varying conditions, and I began to wonder if I'd been too hasty. These skis took some getting used to....in certain conditions my turns felt awkward, I wasn't sure how well I could maneuver them on steeper runs, I keep getting too far in the back seat with them.

Fast forward to this season. I now see these skis helped me clean up my formerly somewhat sloppy form. It didn't take long, either. These skis helped me become better. They make a beautiful long curved turn, I can do a very very quick turn, a skidded turn if I want, they are stable as heck on long straight runs. I never find myself too far back any more.

I guess my point is that you can't always decide about a ski real fast. Conditions are always different. I was debating last spring about perhaps finding another alternate ski for certain type of snow conditions. But now I love these skis and they make a really fine one ski quiver, actually. I'm totally satisfied. But it took maybe 10 to 15 times on the hill with them to reach this point of view. You can't always demo much when buying a ski, but in the future, I'll want to do a few demos on a ski I like and I'd deliberately try to demo the ski on very different snow conditions. Also, as I saw with myself, my technique did change and adjust to the ski quite a bit. I believe those changes were for the better, in my case.

 

[wave_spice]

Thanks CMCM for the insight. I guess I'm just in a confused state right now. I've skied on the elans about 9 times (I ski in NE so the conditions vary a lot) and each time I've gone out with them I've soooo wanted to love them, but it hasn't happened. Can my technique improve? Sure but I don't think I'll be able to hit the slopes like I used to in the 90's to get my technique to the point that no matter what ski I hop into, I'll be able to control gracefully.

When I skied with the Dynastars this weekend some of my friends commented that my form really improved and that I was looking good. Now was that all due to the skis? Probably not....

There are some killer 50% deals out there for both the Dynastar EL's that I tried on Saturday and the Fischer Vision quest. I haven't tried the Fischer's but they've gotten fabulous reviews and have a similar cut to the EL's. I want to hit the buy button....I even thought of hitting the buy button on both of them (quick moment of insanity that battles my frugality)

Someone here related skis to relationships...call me crazy but I'm leaning towards the EL's for 2 reasons:
1. They weren't my first love
2. I didn't fall for them immediately...they just grew on me and I can't stop thinking about them (kind of like my DH-10yrs together and still going strong :D)

EL-made me happy on the bumps, form felt like it was tidying up, speed was fine, ice was ok (114-75-102; $474.50 free shipping)

Fischers-can't find anywhere to demo but a very similar profile to the Dynastar (118-76-102; $475-free shipping)

Still thinking of the Fischers...the graphics are very nice IMHO

I can definitely say that I've been extremely of all the ladies that have been able to hit demo days over the last couple of weeks...but I am extremely grateful for all of their reports.