Technique question for firm groomers

[bounceswoosh]

I'm still confused. Are those tracks below you? Or is that the field L to R we're supposed to be looking in?

I'm sorry. I am the worst at this.

Right is uphill. Left is downhill. The ski instructor is downhill of where we are standing. We are standing uphill of the tracks because we came for a second run. I know the far right tracks are mine because the drill was to ski within our chosen cat track, and that's the only track that stays in that lane.

 

[Skisailor]

I'm sorry. I am the worst at this.

Right is uphill. Left is downhill. The ski instructor is downhill of where we are standing. We are standing uphill of the tracks because we came for a second run. I know the far right tracks are mine because the drill was to ski within our chosen cat track, and that's the only track that stays in that lane.

Got it. Thank you! What I see between the red lines are nice steered/smeared tracks. No carved tracks. A true carved turn lays down 2 clean pencil-thin lines like railroad tracks. The snow around them is pretty much undisturbed.

 

[Skisailor]

Got it. Thank you! What I see between the red lines are nice steered/smeared tracks. No carved tracks. A true carved turn lays down 2 clean pencil-thin lines like railroad tracks. The snow around them is pretty much undisturbed.

Meant to add - I've looked at carved tracks a lot in the last year because being able to lay down clean railroad tracks is one of the tasks for the Level 2 exam.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Thanks, @Skisailor .

 

[heather matthews]

@Skisailor The systems are a bit different aren't they.NZSIA level 2 requires demos of basic parallel,dynamic medium radius and short radius turns as well as wedge and wedge parallel plus general analysis of your overall skiing(continuous assessment over the 6 day course).I remember our examiner being very particular about riding the sidecut of the ski.It was a total no no.He wanted to see dynamic blended turns that showed you were in charge and not the ski and if you were making short radius turns those turns to be carved when appropriate(and possible depending on the conditions and your ability) and more smeary when necessary.The snow in Moniques' pictures looks like it would be such fun.She should be well pleased even to be skiing now.I wish I was!!

 

[bounceswoosh]

The snow in Moniques' pictures looks like it would be such fun.

It was a little section associated with the video booth. The video booth wasn't running, but only instructors are allowed to ski there =) Fresh cord, om nom nom. Although it sounds like I have to reconsider my concept of carving. Honestly, I've been confused about the tracks and how to read them for a while, so this helps. (Even if it hurts a little, but that's okay.)

 

[heather matthews]

I was wondering why it was all fresh cord and compared to the rest of the piste.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I was wondering why it was all fresh cord and compared to the rest of the piste.

I am wondering why another instructor didn't come along first and claim it!

 

[RuthB]

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much at this point in your rehab. You're skiing on a ski that is not a natural Carver and is doing what reviews suggest it does well - smeary steered turns. If that is a breck green or blue run that you are skiing on I also think that unless you are really dialled in to what a true carved turn is then it would be a big ask to lay down perfect railroad tracks if you are taking it easy. The combination of flat slopes and slower speeds make it more difficult to carve. You do need a bit of momentum and power to carve as opposed to tipping and riding the natural sidecut.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much at this point in your rehab. You're skiing on a ski that is not a natural Carver and is doing what reviews suggest it does well - smeary steered turns. If that is a breck green or blue run that you are skiing on I also think that unless you are really dialled in to what a true carved turn is then it would be a big ask to lay down perfect railroad tracks if you are taking it easy. The combination of flat slopes and slower speeds make it more difficult to carve. You do need a bit of momentum and power to carve as opposed to tipping and riding the natural sidecut.

That particular run is the video booth on the left side of Springmeyer after it turns green - yeah, barely any pitch. On steeper blue runs, even though I don't think I am likely to fall, the risk of damage if I fell at high speeds is just not a good bet right now. But your comment - tipping and riding isn't enough - makes me think I've been thinking of carving all wrong. Which, yeah, I don't think racers tip and ride, now that you mention it. But now is not the time to figure it out.

I very much enjoyed today's lesson. We were playing in these cat tracks to work on getting used to narrower corridors. Then Pete just very very very gradually got us to work toward bumps. Going really slow in the same narrow corridor the next time. Practicing skiing by turning skis as far as possible to the side while facing down the hill (great for if I feel skittery and want to control speed). Practicing turning on top of tiny, barely-visible soft "bumps," or as he called them, "pimples," on the groomed snow (which was still very soft, because there's been a lot of snow lately). Then gradually introducing the same move on slightly larger mounds. Lots and lots of side slipping and demonstrating that you can ski slowly and stop in the bumps. Garland turns. Then turning against the side of the bump, not just on the top. Then finally the very smallest of the bumps along the edge of a modest, low-angle bump field. A mention of pushing the tips down after you cross the bump. (Me, interrupting to ask if this is the baby version of retraction turns.) And finally bringing it all together with the option to ski some of the bigger small bumps on the low-angle field.

(Also some personal feedback to me about getting more forward, a la snot drill, except he said to pretend there's water in my downhill ear and I need to shake it out. And that I need to be flexing at the knee just a bit more, which is hard right now because, well, it hurts. Pretty sure it's the remaining tendon, not the ACL per se.)

I don't know if all of this was new, or repeat, to the other people in the group. I do know that for me, it was a wonderful rebuild of my last 6 years of bump education, from the ground up. I know that the first, tenth, and fiftieth time I heard most of these things, they didn't necessarily sink in. For me, this is a really splendid opportunity to work on bump basics without being able to "escape" to mindlessly skiing harder bumps with my existing technique (or lack thereof). So I am soaking this all in as much as possible.

 

[ski diva]

Y'know, about all this: as long as 1) you're having fun; 2) your knee isn't hurting; 3) it's a beautiful day and omigod that's some gorgeous corduroy, I wouldn't sweat it. (That is, unless you want to -- it just depends on what you think is important and what you want to accomplish). I mean no offense by this; it's just great that you're out there, given everything you've been through. Just my two cents.

And I wasn't trying to push you about the Vivas; I just wanted to re-affirm that they're fun.

 

[contesstant]

Y'know, about all this: as long as 1) you're having fun; 2) your knee isn't hurting; 3) it's a beautiful day and omigod that's some gorgeous corduroy, I wouldn't sweat it. (That is, unless you want to -- it just depends on what you think is important and what you want to accomplish). I mean no offense by this; it's just great that you're out there, given everything you've been through. Just my two cents.

And I wasn't trying to push you about the Vivas; I just wanted to re-affirm that they're fun.

Yep! This! And, I see nice turn shape and I noticed you commented on the deliciousness of fresh corduroy. Someone is redeveloping an appreciation for great groomer skiing, which sure as heck is fun fun fun!!

 

[nopoleskier]

I also see smeared turns no rail road tracks. Making Railroad tracks on fat skis is hard on the body IMHO.. why I like my slicer dicer 70-74 under foot my 88's and 95's under foot torque my knees and make me hurt. I do ski railroad tracks and love a pure carved turn and when I switch to my 'fatties (88 or 95) I have to stop laying them over and smear..

Sorry you said you like to dig your heels in when coaxed so I won't chide you but really why won't you take those Viva's out? IMHO they will be easier on your knee on groomed.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Sorry you said you like to dig your heels in when coaxed so I won't chide you but really why won't you take those Viva's out? IMHO they will be easier on your knee on groomed.

I will take them out when I want to, I guess. But since it's dumping buckets right now, it won't be today. (I have a boot fitting appointment at 10:30, so I woke up late - drat - hope I have time for a few runs after! It tends to run long. Maybe the snow will keep non-appointment people from coming to the shop.)

 

[bounceswoosh]

Y'know, about all this: as long as 1) you're having fun; 2) your knee isn't hurting; 3) it's a beautiful day and omigod that's some gorgeous corduroy, I wouldn't sweat it. (That is, unless you want to -- it just depends on what you think is important and what you want to accomplish). I mean no offense by this; it's just great that you're out there, given everything you've been through. Just my two cents.

And I wasn't trying to push you about the Vivas; I just wanted to re-affirm that they're fun.

I will definitely get out on the Vivas this season on a firm day. But I have questions. I think a conversation with @tinymoose last night has gelled in my brain, so these are my questions. Are the Vivas okay with slarving, not just carving? If I made turns like the ones in the picture, would they allow me to do so? Can I be lazy and let them run on flats without getting hooked up? Can I side slip on them easily?

In the lessons, we're mostly working on flat-ski (or at least flatter-ski) techniques to get the group ready for soft bumps, so I think a non-carver is just fine there.

But today - it's dumping!!


But I have a boot fitter appointment at 10:30 - he didn't have any earlier - and they always seem to take a while.



The forecast was an inch overnight and 1-2 over the day, but if it keeps up like this, it will be more.

 

[bounceswoosh]

And this is what happens when I post right after waking up. Two posts with almost identical content.

 

[nopoleskier]

yes

I will definitely get out on the Vivas this season on a firm day. But I have questions. I think a conversation with @tinymoose last night has gelled in my brain, so these are my questions. Are the Vivas okay with slarving, not just carving? If I made turns like the ones in the picture, would they allow me to do so? Can I be lazy and let them run on flats without getting hooked up? Can I side slip on them easily?

In the lessons, we're mostly working on flat-ski (or at least flatter-ski) techniques to get the group ready for soft bumps, so I think a non-carver is just fine there.

But today - it's dumping!!


But I have a boot fitter appointment at 10:30 - he didn't have any earlier - and they always seem to take a while.



The forecast was an inch overnight and 1-2 over the day, but if it keeps up like this, it will be more.

yes for bumps it is a flat ski not a carver although carvers can be used in bumps you just don't edge in bumps (I don't unless ice bumps edge for speed control) lucky you should never have ice like we have.

YES any ski can smear.. I was told it is a lazy turn on true carving skis.. Yes letting the skis kick out and not finishing so the tails swish can be done on any ski. (most skiers do this on steeps and as speed control)
I really think you'll be happy on the vivas. (hint hint)

Yeah More snow for us next week!!

 

[Jilly]

I've with SkiSailor and Nopole. No railway tracks there.

I believe the NZSIA is similar to our CSIA. Basic parallel for level 2. Level 3 you need Dynamic parallel with the railway tracks, on advanced terrain and speed.

I do have agree with everyone else. Pure carved turns on wide skis are hard to do. Not that it can't be done, but I've only seen really athletic people do it. Get the Viva's out and let er rip.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I realize this is clearly a lost cause, and I am partly to blame for posting that picture and asking, but I specifically do not want to rip, which is the reason I posted this thread in the first place. I was looking for ways to slow down. That would be the opposite of carving.

 

[Jilly]

Slowing down is all about turn shape. That looked good. Use the hill/gravity to slow you down. Make "Ss" or at least C's. As you turn back up hill you slow down.