• Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.

Skiing Well and Skiing Bumps

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
@santacruz skier We were in Whistler bowl on a clear day too. I was having boot issues and got toe bang really bad that week. Add in demo skis that I just didn't like.....bad day all around. Glad to say that boots are fixed. Toe not yet but it's coming. And I didn't order the Solomon's either. But those are excuses. I couldn't keep up as I've been skiing too many groomers with my buddies at Tremblant.

I have a plan for this coming season that involves more time OFF the groomers.
Oh yeah. I've been to WB several times and haven't really skied a whole lot of steep stuff. (no double blacks) Friend (PSIA 2 instructor) I was rooming with on a group trip skied Spanky's every day and said it was serious business. I was intimidated by the line up..... she did say there was one way down I would have no trouble with but you need to know where you're going!
The bowls were fun though and I was having boot issues as well last time I was there! Hope your toe heals..
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I grew up skiing so much at Mary Jane that I couldn't really turn on groomers very well. I needed moguls to turn on. Then skis changed, and it was a lot easier.

Context is always important. We shouldn't get our knickers twisted over pithy little remarks intended to make a point. We all know the one (or more) who says, "I'm an expert skier, except I don't do bumps or powder." If it's due to age or injury, no big deal ... it's understandable. But then just say, "I used to be an expert skier...."
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
21371180_1470371199713942_8761964619458177720_n.jpg
Since we are dissecting quotes... lol
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
Back in the day I did a steeps camp where they took us to a chute too narrow to sideslip. Definitely scary. You just had to commit to the speed you were going to pick up until you got to where it would open up and you had space to turn. Eek!!
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Back in the day I did a steeps camp where they took us to a chute too narrow to sideslip. Definitely scary. You just had to commit to the speed you were going to pick up until you got to where it would open up and you had space to turn. Eek!!

I don't know that I could do that! Or that is ... I did something similar once, but it was not so much a chute as just a few feet. And the moment it opened up, I turned so hard that my skis went up the hill, and it turned out the forward pressure on my bindings was set incorrectly, so I lost a ski ....
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Mine is related - don't drop into anything that I can't do falling leaf in, mostly because if I'm in a situation where I need to side slip, I'm probably too terrified to do it well and will wind up doing falling leaf. :smile:
Makes sense to me. Although I've reached the point where I'll go with an instructor pretty much anywhere during a lesson.

There is no question that one reason I could get more mileage on complex terrain during trips out west was that I found ski buddies who were better skiers and willing to be a sweeper when I felt I needed that to be confident enough to work on making turns instead of just getting down. Plus they could go check out an area beforehand to make sure conditions were decent.

Once I passed a certain stage, it's been great fun to know that we can go exploring at a new ski resort and I'm not going to get stuck. It's a combination of solid survival skills, more experience getting out of a difficult situation, and better technique so much more likely to simply keep skiing. Last season, ended up putting all that together when my ski buddy, JC, and I ended up on in double-black trees at Taos when we were looking for a black trail. We worked our way down and over until it was obvious how to get over to the more open terrain. Still steep but no trees. Plus we could see someone following an instructor.
 

Mary Tee

Angel Diva
:rolleyes: Anyone who skis the mid Atlantic knows that one group of snowboarders can ruin an entire trail in a single run. Boarders in the Poconos are like stoned, foul-mouthed Zambonis.

:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

Agree!!!!!!
 

Rainbow Jenny

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That's her style. That woman is awesome!
I recall skiing the "back door" with your intermediate group at Whistler/Blackhomb, there were several times when we'd get to a Y with two options, one groomers and one bumps. Many of the people in the group just didn't want to ski bumps, some couldn't ski bumps, and some of us were seeking low angle bumps. It was nice to have you and me working together so that we could go both ways and meet at the bottom.
That was a fun time!!

Lady Salina was weeding me out that morning too... but I begged and pleaded to stay with the group. It was the most challenging and thrilling W/B day ever, I absolutely loved it!

I still suck, but being an adrenaline junkie seems to get me places...
 

Olesya Chornoguz

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I assume you're not posting from the top of WB, so at least you did make it down eventually!

Sounds like sort of that "red zone" thing. Huh, found the link quickly - it looks like the images are no longer available, but the text is still there: https://mysnowpro.com/zones_of_comfort_and_fear_-_pe/

Funny thing - the instructor who wrote that post accidentally red zone / TF'd half my group many years ago ...
Ohh I love the article - makes a lot of sense with what I experienced in my skiing. Also there is this quote in the article:
"It is also important to note when a participant is standing above a run and looking in, the “fear of the unknown” can be quite strong. Once the skier/rider “takes action”, there will usually be a 1/2 to 1 zone drop in anxiety."
That happens to me a lot on top of challenging un groomed runs, once I start skiing I am usually ok.

I also realized that while I have been in the orange zone a good amount this past season I have only been in the red once or twice per season. I am fairly cautious skier so that is probably why. As about unintentional red zoning with instructor - well the few times I was in red zone this past season it was all with instructor. They were all great, experienced instructors. Perhaps they wanted to expand my comfort zone and I think because I ski with good technique on groomers (thanks to many lessons) instructors think I can handle some pretty challenging terrain off piste. But the reality is that my mileage of skiing in challenging terrain is small and I am not yet good at mentally/psychologically handling challenging off piste terrain. I got down the challenging terrain just fine with the good old side slipping and falling leaf, but a few times I was terrified as I was side slipping. It was an adventure and exercise in honing survival skills mentally and physically, so that is a good experience too! And also now I know that I don't enjoy tight steep trees with big firm bumps in them! :smile:

There were a few days last season when the opposite was true. A powder day at Alta and moderately difficult bumps covered with lovely fresh powder come to mind. That was a day when I just went for it - the snow was so good the bumps were so much fun in fluffy powder. I skied and giggled out of happiness on a couple of black slopes at Alta that terrified the hell out of me the season before. My personal experience with skiing improvement is that there are a lot of ups and downs. No pun intended. :smile:
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Makes sense to me. Although I've reached the point where I'll go with an instructor pretty much anywhere during a lesson.

So will I. But usually I'm chasing people or alone, and not in a lesson, so I have to set up some parameters.

I got down the challenging terrain just fine with the good old side slipping and falling leaf, but a few times I was terrified as I was side slipping.

See? Falling leaf is so much less scary. :smile:
 

mustski

Angel Diva
It's funny, but I actually find falling leaf more frightening than side slipping! Maybe it's the whole moving backwards thing. I learned to side slip my first season on skis. It was a beginner skill back East in the 70's. I think everyone should lear it almost immediately!
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
I learned to ski in the 70's as well and learned side slipping as a beginner... and still have no problem side slipping if I need to... now kick turns I'm not so great at unless on my 152's... any longer I get tangled up!
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Once learned, side-slipping is easy. But there are several things that make learning it quite difficult.

I teach a lot of adult beginner groups, and almost always do a side-slip session with them as I lead them down the beginner hill. We have to get down this one short-ish section that looks steep to them, and it's at the top before they cement their turning skills. I have them side-step down the first part of it because I've had them doing plenty of side-steps beforehand. They are uncertain about the pitch, but they all are able to side-step down it anyway. Then I slowly show them how to smooth the side-steps out into side-slipping. I do this in sections, a little bit at a time.

We are half way down this pitch at this point; to them it looks like miles and miles, so they are motivated to do it the faster way (side-slipping) instead of stepping the whole way down. I climb back up and side-slip down beside them, one by one (tiring!) After everyone tries the side-slipping, I give them the option to keep using side-steps if they choose. We eventually make our way down to where the pitch becomes more shallow. It takes a bit of time.

Most can't do the side-slipping, some can, and in their short lesson with me they usually don't get a second try because time runs out. I used to not understand why so many had so much trouble with the slipping. I figured it was the fear. Fear (there is no flat run-out, so they all feel fear) makes them want to look and lean uphill; we work on that. But there's something else going on, and I think I've discovered what it is.

About four years ago I had trouble with boots that I had just bought (from a respected boot-fitter, by the way). Those boots gave me all kinds of pain, sometimes sending me away from the mountain in the middle of the day in an emergency boot-fitter visit. Towards the end of the season my liners packed out dramatically, all-of-a-sudden (or maybe my feet shrank, or both), and I started to sense way too much room in the boot width-wise and volume-wise. I decided to buy new boots the following fall when new stock appeared in the shops.

One day, when I was side-slipping my beginner group down that pitch, I felt insecure in my side-slips. No, I felt fear. Those boots allowed my feet to slip sideways inside them, which severely reduced my control over each ski's angle to the snow. I was an instructor feeling fear on a little side-slip on the bunny hill, and that fear was coming from my boots not fitting right. And that fear was justified; it reflected actual lack of control with no way to regain it short of going shopping.

I realized my students must be experiencing this same thing in their rental boots -- which were probably too wide, probably too tall in volume, too loose around the ankle and lower leg. All of these lead to little control over edge-angles, as well as the direction the skis are pointed.

They probably think it's them. They think it's their courage or their lack of skill. That's sad. The only real fix is a boot that does not allow sideways slippage of their feet, and as I've discovered the hard way that can be a multi-year search for the right boot fitter.

By the way, I'm in the right boots now, with all the right modifications, due to me finally finding the right guy who took my feet seriously.
 
Last edited:

marzNC

Angel Diva
. . . I realized my students must be experiencing this same thing in their rental boots -- which were probably too wide, probably too tall in volume, too loose around the ankle and lower leg. All of these lead to little control over edge-angles, as well as the direction the skis are pointed.

They probably think it's them. They think it's their courage or their lack of skill. That's sad. The only real fix is a boot that does not allow sideways slippage of their feet, and as I've discovered the hard way that can be a multi-year search for the right boot fitter.
I think you are right for beginners in rental boots.

The lace-up leather boots that I was wearing when I learned to side-slip straight skis on a hill that would be considered a blue in the Mid-Atlantic certainly didn't have any slippage. When I was skiing in my own comfy rear-entry boots a decade later, I knew enough about side-slipping that the fact that they weren't super-snug didn't matter. Especially since I was only skiing blue groomers.

Back to thinking about bumps . . . my Level 3 coach at Massanutten told me a story of a PSIA clinic he took when he thought he was pretty much ready for the Level 3 exams. Early on, the trainer had noticed a major flaw in his technique. Made him do the entire clinic with loose boots. They were on bumps at Hunter. He spent the next year improving technique, which meant undoing habits he hadn't thought about hard enough. He was skiing mostly at Massanutten. Having boots that fit properly is certainly important. But there are also subtle skills that can be mastered without skiing at a big mountain.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So, a note about side-slipping that applies to all skiing -

When discussing turn initiation, you hear a lot about flattening your skis against the snow. Okay, cool. Been doing that for years, right?

Last season, I had a revelation. I was perfectly capable of tipping my feet to match the angle of the snow while keeping my body in a more static (uphill) position. And that's what I did for turn initiation as well as for side slipping. But what I really needed to be doing was to get my body into a more fall line position, which would then tip the skis for me.

This is extremely relevant for bump skiing.
 

Skier31

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So, a note about side-slipping that applies to all skiing -

When discussing turn initiation, you hear a lot about flattening your skis against the snow. Okay, cool. Been doing that for years, right?

Last season, I had a revelation. I was perfectly capable of tipping my feet to match the angle of the snow while keeping my body in a more static (uphill) position. And that's what I did for turn initiation as well as for side slipping. But what I really needed to be doing was to get my body into a more fall line position, which would then tip the skis for me.

This is extremely relevant for bump skiing.

Good point! We can tip our feet to flatten our skis but if our body remains uphill, there will still be some edge left on the snow and the skis won't slide. This usually leads to some upper body rotation to "help" the skis turn. Flattening our skis and moving our weight over the downhill ski both need to happen or we get "stuck" and have to pick up the inside ski or do something else to start the turn. It does not take much edge to preclude the ski from sliding. Once the skis are flat, gravity does the work.

Flattening the skis seems like a very simple concept but can be difficult to do as terrain gets steeper, snow gets bumpier or cruddy.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
26,277
Messages
498,899
Members
8,563
Latest member
LaurieAnna
Top