Panic attack at the Top

[2ski2moro]

What do you do when a friend has a panic attack at the top of a run? She was frozen with fear. Crying. In the end, her husband walked back up to the lift with her.

=Details=
We had been skiing for about 3 hours at Gore. We started out on some fun blue cruisers. We moved up the mountain to ski two black runs we have done before. They were a little firm/icy, but you could set an edge. She did not fall and seemed in control. We skied another blue cruiser.

I shared a lift with an instructor who told me that ‘Uncas’ was really good. It was groomed and at the top, the snowmakers had left huge whales that skied like a roller coaster. After the whales, the trail was groomed to perfection.

My friend had never skied Uncas. It is steep, but wide by NY standards. It is straight for most of the length of the trail, and then it splits near the bottom. From the top, you look into the valley, and can see across to the other side of the resort on another mountain.

Three of us skied the whales, but she went around them. That’s fine. We got to the top of the run where it gets steep and waited for the group to congregate. I thought everyone was ready and I started off. It was so nice, I was whooping as I skied. I went to the bottom and waited. And waited. DH skied up to me. And we waited some more. Finally, it took too long, and I feared something had happened. I called her husband’s cell phone. No answer. He finally called back and said that they were walking back up to the top.

It could have been the ‘view’ that overwhelmed her. It could be that it had a Black Diamond sign at the top. It was not crowded, but there were some people skiing it. She has skied on steeper runs before. I have always ‘led’ her down new slopes, but this time I just took off. What caused her panic is a mystery to me.

We spent the rest of the day on blue cruisers and she seemed happy with that. She wanted no part of anything steep the rest of the day.
=End of Details=


What do you do? Can you call ski patrol for a ride down/up? Should I have gone back to the top of the run and talked her down one turn at a time? Does she ‘get back on the horse’ next week and try again?

Please share your experiences.

 

[Pequenita]

No offense, but this sounds like a twist on the Irresponsible Behavior thread.

At the time: Patrollers can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's an utter waste of resources to call them for a ride down. I think her DH and she did the best thing they could under the circumstances, aside from being talked down the run. And then take a break/regroup/go onto easier trails/call it a day.

Next time: If I were her, I'd want to take a lesson to boost my confidence. Also, I'd pipe up about what to ski/not to ski. But, you can't control what she does, only what you do. I think in this case, it may be up to you to "look out" for your friend and give her a way out.

Decide as a group whether you want to ski together or ride the lift and ski down separate runs. If skiing as a group, stronger skiers need to be patient. Have her choose the runs you go on. If you want to go on something she's uncomfortable with, do different runs and agree to meet up at the same lift.

On runs that are more challenging for her, if she decides to join you: Before setting out, make sure she's ready to go. It's possible that getting around the whales was taxing for her, so she was still catching her breath when you got going again. Also, maybe descend in a different order. Have her go second out of a group of 4, with skiers 3 and 4 giving her lots of time before following. Finally, stop along the way rather than going all the way down.


ETA: Sometimes it's just incredibly difficult to figure out how to best ski in a group. I'm not sure I necessarily think of the incidents in the "irresponsible behavior" thread as truly irresponsible...poor judgment, sure. If someone says, "Sure, I can ski this" and then realizes they're in over their head, whose "fault" is it? I'm sure that anyone who passed your friend and her DH would have characterized it as "Oh, here's another dingbat guy who trying to get his wife to ski something she can't." And you know that's not the case.

 

[Lilywhite]

I've been your friend! It depends on the why? I had an instructor at sunshine village who did not listen and forced me down a run that I had no place being on in the first place who then shouted at me til I told him to eff off unless he wanted to wear my skis! I sidestepped down the rest of the way. Not a good start to my first day back on skis that year! We were in Banff for a fortnight, I had a couple more lessons with another instructor and put in a lot of hours practice over the next 10 days, on the last day of the holiday I decided to face my demons with my friends who flanked me and kept up banal chatter throughout, it was night and day different!I felt more confident and no yelling, at the end of the run I went straight back up and did it again no problems.
My last holiday although I did not know it I was coming down with an infection and ended up freaking out on a really wide open blue slope the like of which I have skied many times but for some reason scared the bejesus out of me, my legs were like jelly, I wanted to cry, didn't feel like I could catch my breath and might as well of been wearing a ballgown and stiletto heels instead of skis as they felt foreign to me! I pretty much sideslipped the whole way down in tears, hating every minute of it, had that been my first experience of snowsports I am confident it would also have been my last! The next day I woke up bathed in sweat with a chest infection and a throat feeling like I'd been eating broken glass. Clearly that had had an impact on my skiing the day before and I actually felt relieved I had a sensible reason for feeling so wretched. I could not ski the rest of the holiday but am eagerly anticipating a jaunt to Sweden at the end of March now.
So for your friend I would either book a lesson to concentrate on whatever freaked her out or, ski the same run in good conditions while its quiet with her, or leave well alone and concentrate on what she enjoys until she feels she wants to address it head on!
Don't think there is a single right answer other than not to press her onto something that might cause her to resent you or give up on such a wonderful sport she obviously mostly enjoys with good supportive friends.

 

[segacs]

Been there, done that. Skiing is so much about the mental game, more so than the physical sometimes. If you psych yourself out for any reason, it can be tough to get your confidence back. It could have been something as simple as her slipping or catching an edge or feeling out of control for a moment, and getting her confidence shaken. Possibly she's afraid of heights. Or maybe she had leg pain, or felt out of breath.

For her: Some mental exercises or talks to psych herself up when approaching a steep might work. When I was a kid, I had a ski school instructor once who used to get us to sing whenever we were facing something scary. Now, 25 years later, I still find myself singing or humming whenever I'm somewhere a little intimidating. Also, she might want to take a lesson to learn "survival" skiing, i.e. the ugly-but-functional ways of getting out of a tricky situation. Obviously these aren't habits that she wants to pick up, but learning a few horrid-technique-but-it-will-get-you-out-of-there tricks could provide her with the confidence to know that even if she ends up somewhere a little scary, she'll always have a Plan B to make it down okay.

For you: Staying more or less in sight might help. If she's following you or feels like you're leading her, she might panic if you get too far ahead. In this case, if her husband was with her, I don't think you did anything wrong, i.e. you didn't leave her by herself. But maybe just talk to her about what it was that made her get scared, to see how you could avoid it next time.

 

[G Hoodie]

I've been in her situation before as well!

I ski with DH - who is MUCH better than me. It's a great opportunity to push myself, and I really enjoy the challenge.

That said, sometimes I get in over my head. When I was first learning blacks, I used to get really freaked out at the top of runs. He would always encourage me, and tell me that the first turn is the hardest. Once I got through the first turn and got going, I'd be just fine. Of course, he also told me I was a p***y if I took too long, side slipped or kicked off my skis to get down. :mad: *sigh* BOYS!

NOW when I get freaked out, or I know I'll be skiing something hard, I turn on my ipod (LOW volume... hate it when other skiers can't hear you.... sheesh) and that helps me to relax and just focus.

It sounds like your friend got in a spot where she felt uncomfortable and she panicked. I'll second the advice to stay within sight. That always helps the mental game to not feel like you're alone. Then you can talk her down if you need to. Or find trails with an easier branch off of them and meet her at the bottom.

Tough situation, but she can still be a great ski buddy!

 

[climbingbetty]

This happened to me this weekend when a friend tricked me. Into my first ever run down a black diamond. It was so steep, I totally panicked! at least I learned how to side slip down a slope!

 

[Robyn]

This happened to me this weekend when a friend tricked me. Into my first ever run down a black diamond. It was so steep, I totally panicked! at least I learned how to side slip down a slope!

This annoys me. I've tricked my athletes into a black diamond before but I always choose one that's easier than a blue they've done and take them in through trees or something so they don't know. Then tell them at the bottom. In their case it's a mental thing and if they know it's black they'll freeze. However, taking someone into something you don't know if they can ski is so dangerous.

 

[litterbug]

My somewhat maniacal telemarking buddy 'tricked' me into skiing some black runs at Brighton late last year by skiing right past all the blues with me and then just diving in as I saw the black marker out of the corner of my eye, but it ended up being a nice confidence-builder because I can now say that I've 'skied' a few black runs. OK, there were a few chute-ish things, but even though I sideslipped a bit and stemmed a lot and even made some completely invented hoppy turns in the chutes, she said "good job" at the end of each one. But we'd already been skiing for a while so she saw how I'd improved from a few months before.

OTOH, later in the day, when my legs were gumby, I had a hell of a time on a wide green run after the snow stiffened up and and I found myself in a wide, icy, rutted and bumpy field. Oy, the whining!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I’ve seen DH-as-instructor (Ret.) deal with this often. In decades past, he used it with me. It’s the “10-feet-ahead/one-turn” method. Panicked person has to get their visual field AWAY from the big picture. Object lesson is to focus on the next turn. Period. And travel in the identical path of the skier/instructor ahead. One turn, and stop. Breathe. Another.

Everyone is going to have to deal with some form of “oh no” at some point when skiing. Obviously, severity of reaction will vary. Once this micro-focus technique is learned and ingrained, it can be implemented without the leader. 10 feet ahead, one turn, breathe – not the pitch, not the whole run, not the vista. One Turn.

It works.

 

[climbingbetty]

This annoys me. I've tricked my athletes into a black diamond before but I always choose one that's easier than a blue they've done and take them in through trees or something so they don't know. Then tell them at the bottom. In their case it's a mental thing and if they know it's black they'll freeze. However, taking someone into something you don't know if they can ski is so dangerous.

In his defense, he knew I could ski it, as he had been watching me on other blues the rest of the day. It was all in my head. I saw the trail marker and immediately panicked. He had me just follow him as we went back and forth across the width of the slope and focus on one turn at time. He was trying to get me out of my head and just focus on the turns. I got about three or four turns in and then just couldn't make myself commit to the fall line to make the next turns and ended up bailing by side-slipping. I really hate going back & forth across the whole slope. I just don't trust that uphill people will avoid me. I know this is totally irrational on a black diamond, experts skiers can see me and avoid me from a mile away, but on the greens, I'm so used to having to be aware of people behind me. Sometimes I get so worried about pissing off and annoying better skiers by traversing the whole slope that I get so focused on that, I can't focus on the turns!

 

[2ski2moro]

Pequenita, I didn’t take offense at all, but in this case, I don’t think taking her to this run was irresponsible or part of an odd group dynamic. I have skied with her on slopes that were much steeper and she did very well. She is a high intermediate who skis blues with confidence and blacks with caution. She was happy to ski Uncas until she got to the first drop off.

Something got into her head that caused a panic attack. In retrospect, I think it was the view to the valley floor. MSL nailed it when she said to get her visual field away from the big picture and focus on the next turn.

When she was a beginner and we got to a steeper part of a run, I would tell her to follow me one turn at a time. I think that maybe she needed that Sunday. I hadn’t done that for so long, I thought she didn’t need it anymore. Lesson learned.

Thanks for the other good suggestions.

I will encourage her to take a lesson. It’s time for a refresher and a shot of confidence. That’s a good idea.

Work on sideslipping. I will definitely remind her about that with a practice session.

I will get her husband on board with these strategies to avoid a panic attack as well. BTW, he is not the one who forces her into anything. He is so in love with her and so gentle and kind. If only I could clone him….

Thanks for all the good tips. I’m glad that this didn’t happen at the end of the season. We will go out next weekend and work on how to handle that OMG feeling.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I would just like to say - you are an awesome friend. I have skied with less-experienced (and, for that matter, more-experienced) friends before, but I would not be up for the "one turn at a time" coaching process - if I had to do that, I'd probably just suggest they take a lesson, and meet up for dinner. Even my best friends. The fact that you decided to just go and enjoy yourself this one time - well, I guess since there was a precedent of you coaching your friend, maybe there's a point to not just skiing off - but on the other hand - you have to have some fun, too!

 

[MonsteRawr]

Oy. This has totally been me. In fact, last week I had my very own meltdown on Uncas. Something about the combination of all the un-groomed lumps and a little bit of slickness just got in my head and freaked me out. My husband caught up with me and gave me a little pep talk and I managed to make my way down, but it wasn't one of my prouder moments.

Sometimes as an intermediate skier skiing with an advanced skier (husband tackled Lies for the first time last week!) I feel pressure to keep up and not be a burden. Like I'm going to keep him from having fun by making him stay longer on blue runs where I'm more comfortable, and I feel like I need to apologize for not being better. I got myself in some rough spots that way, by hitting the blacks harder and for longer than I was ready for. Then I'd tire myself out, my technique would start slipping, I would start wiping out, and all of a sudden runs that I was handling just fine before lunch are terrifying and I'm standing on the side of Hawk Eye crying.

I realized that it was my responsibility to come to terms with my abilities and comfort level. Sometimes it means that husband and I have to split up for a couple of runs so I can do a couple more runs on the blues while husband bombs some blacks. And when I start feeling toasty in the afternoon, I have to take it upon myself to say, "No more, I'm done." Yes, it good that husband pushes me and encourages me to do things that I'm a little afraid to do, (otherwise I would have never left the greens!) but it's also my responsibility to make sure that I'm not doing something stupid.

That being said, my husband is also wonderful about helping me through my many meltdowns. 75% of my issues with skiing are all in my head, and he knows it, so he does his best to help me through them. If we're going down a run that is at the upper level of my comfort level, he'll usually send me down first and give me a good-sized head start to make sure I get going okay. He'll then take off himself, pass me (I'm slow,) and when he's gone past me a good ways he'll pull over and wait for me to catch up. This way, I never feel as if I'm totally alone, and if I do have trouble he's never more than a hollered, "GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD, YOU CAN DO THIS!" away.

Not saying that either you or your friend were at fault here, just that I've been standing in those terrified skies before!

 

[contesstant]

I’ve seen DH-as-instructor (Ret.) deal with this often. In decades past, he used it with me. It’s the “10-feet-ahead/one-turn” method. Panicked person has to get their visual field AWAY from the big picture. Object lesson is to focus on the next turn. Period. And travel in the identical path of the skier/instructor ahead. One turn, and stop. Breathe. Another.

Everyone is going to have to deal with some form of “oh no” at some point when skiing. Obviously, severity of reaction will vary. Once this micro-focus technique is learned and ingrained, it can be implemented without the leader. 10 feet ahead, one turn, breathe – not the pitch, not the whole run, not the vista. One Turn.

It works.

Yes, it does work! This coming from the one who has the freak-outs yet does fine in lessons when I don't even notice where we are going--just follow the leader!

In his defense, he knew I could ski it, as he had been watching me on other blues the rest of the day. It was all in my head. I saw the trail marker and immediately panicked. He had me just follow him as we went back and forth across the width of the slope and focus on one turn at time. He was trying to get me out of my head and just focus on the turns. I got about three or four turns in and then just couldn't make myself commit to the fall line to make the next turns and ended up bailing by side-slipping. I really hate going back & forth across the whole slope. I just don't trust that uphill people will avoid me. I know this is totally irrational on a black diamond, experts skiers can see me and avoid me from a mile away, but on the greens, I'm so used to having to be aware of people behind me. Sometimes I get so worried about pissing off and annoying better skiers by traversing the whole slope that I get so focused on that, I can't focus on the turns!

I, too, allow other skiers to get into my head. Way more than I should. But then as I get faster, I notice that I'm getting in other skiers heads! I can see them tense up as I go by. Totally normal reaction! My solution is to not ski when it's crowded, which isn't always possible, unfortunately!

 

[dloveski]

My somewhat maniacal telemarking buddy 'tricked' me into skiing some black runs at Brighton late last year by skiing right past all the blues with me and then just diving in as I saw the black marker out of the corner of my eye, but it ended up being a nice confidence-builder because I can now say that I've 'skied' a few black runs. OK, there were a few chute-ish things, but even though I sideslipped a bit and stemmed a lot and even made some completely invented hoppy turns in the chutes, she said "good job" at the end of each one. But we'd already been skiing for a while so she saw how I'd improved from a few months before.

Bet it was Wren Hollow!

Conditions vary so much day to day (and this year especially) that color designation is just a guideline. Blues with rocks and bumps have been trickier than some blacks with caches of snow, for a while, one of brightens green t rails was listed expert only...I was asked to check it out for the resort....and dodged rocks and sticks and whoopedy doos....as there was not enough snow to groom it at the time, yet it is in a high traffic area. I stopped to help a dad with two tots who could not make it up the whoopedy doo.....

 

[2ski2moro]

I would just like to say - you are an awesome friend. I have skied with less-experienced (and, for that matter, more-experienced) friends before, but I would not be up for the "one turn at a time" coaching process - if I had to do that, I'd probably just suggest they take a lesson, and meet up for dinner. Even my best friends. The fact that you decided to just go and enjoy yourself this one time - well, I guess since there was a precedent of you coaching your friend, maybe there's a point to not just skiing off - but on the other hand - you have to have some fun, too!

Thanks for the compliment. I'd like to think that this a part of our friendship. 90% of the day, we all ski together. We agree to stop at a trail intersection so that we don't get separated. Although she is the last to arrive, it is usually only a few seconds later.

I remember my friends from my learning days, who patiently taught me. I also remember the days when I was so slow and the last one to meet up with the group. I was exhausted, but they had rested and wanted to start out as soon as I caught up. Now, I let her catch her breath before we begin again. A minute or two will not ruin my day.

If I spend 5% in coaching her and 5% on the steeps that she is unable to do, I am a happy skier. And besides that, if I go off on my own, I am afraid that I will miss out on some of the group fun, stories on the lift, etc.

MonsteRawr and ClimbingBetty - come ski with us! You will fit right in.

One more thing. MonsteRawr, you have skied Hawkeye and Uncas and it sounds like you are the same ability level as my friend. She skis Hawkeye on a regular basis, and and Hawkeye gets scraped off and icy early. She would have had no problem with the conditions on Uncas that day. I really think it was the view across to the other side of the mountain and the depth of the valley that did it. BTW, I have skied Lies many times when it has soft bumps, but that tilted-ice-rink thing is not for me.

 

[Jilly]

I think you've got some good advice here. And I agree with MSL. Something I've had to do many times. Confidence is all she needs. So focus on that. A lesson, clinic whatever.

Roxy really helped me. This weekend with Carrieme and her crew, I made a wrong turn and looked down and said WHF, this isn't the way. That's Petit Bonheur down there. But because I'd skied worst at Whistler, Emotion didn't bother me too much. The rocks do, not the bumps or trees. I value my bases. So build up that confidence and make sure she does ski that run soon.

 

[SKIbell]

Hey, 2ski2moro!

You are a good friend to ski with from the sound of what you have written here, so hopefully we will get our chance to meet up and share some runs. I have enjoyed, and not so much enjoyed (LOL) many a run on those trails at Gore that the Adirondack skier gals are mentioning. The top of Uncas, Top Ridge, and Lies especially used to really freak me out. And, as other Divas have stated SO MUCH of skiing is mental. The view from the top of Uncas can be really intimidating...it is just so wide open there, and with the view of the valley floor it does seem even more intimidating some days than others. I know I have felt it! It sounds as if she is a good skier, who just had a bad moment. I don't think that's unusual at all.

Another thing about Uncas I never liked was that you ski at the top of it for so long before you get to the point where it really drops. You can't see the pitch of the slope you are dealing with, or the conditions on it until you are right on top of that drop. I never liked that... I always felt like I had no idea what I was "Getting into" on a given day while leading up to the trail. Then there is Lies, where you can't see the trail for that head wall until you are committed. I can appreciate how your friend likely felt.

I'm sure with your help and encouragement, she'll be back out on Uncas and other black diamond trails sooner than later. I'm sure the tips here in all the responses will help. I know I've had my DH to encourage me through many tough spots when I was too petrified to make a turn!

Keep us posted on how she does next time out....I'm jealous. I miss Gore.

 

[marta]

All this talk about Gore... I'm going there in two weeks...
I agree with everyone above on getting freaked folks safely down steep spots. Learning to sideslide is a key trick to keep in the bag.

 

[marge]

It sounds as if it was just "one of those moments" for her. As you said, she had done steeper and sometimes it's that all encompassing view that completely freaks some people out. She might have been tired and had a few "slips" somewhere along the line and just "crashed" when she saw this.

My little guy had a horrible episode of this last weekend. :( He had skied Shadows and Closet at Steamboat and COMPLETELY freaked out while skiing Heavenly Daze (blue groomed run) down the front of Steamboat. I mean, melted DOWN. I finally did "follow the leader" with him making sure we didn't get more than about 20 feet apart. He did great. One of the Steamboat Ambassadors even stopped when he first freaked to see if we were okay as he was bawling.

Later that afternoon we went back to Morningside and skied the steep bumps from the top and I looked at him bumping along and asked why this didn't scare him as it is MUCH steeper than HD. He said cause there were bumps and trees. He feels safer on bumps. I think HD is freaky because it feels like you can see for days and it completely open.

You just never know with someone what will set them off and what makes them feel "safe". I also think it depends on the person what you will need to do to get them down. With me, I will sometimes totally freak on a double black but I just need time.... lots and LOTS of time. :p