On the death of BASE jumper Dean Potter

[ski diva]

In addition to posts from friends, my Facebook feed has a lot of stuff from adventure- and skier-geared websites and individuals. So I've been seeing a lot lately about the death of Dean Potter, the BASE-jumper who recently died in Yosemite. Then today I saw something from Unofficial Networks about a 73-year old BASE jumper who accidentally died after lighting his parachute on fire. Anyway, there was an interesting editorial on BASE jumping in the NY Times, written by Timothy Egan, a writer and journalist whom I very much respect. Basically, he decries the "cultural celebration of sport-assisted suicide." He writes, "Calling BASE jumping a sport is charitable. It's death-courting. Odds are with death."

You can read his whole piece here. Don't miss the comments; they're interesting, too.

Your thoughts?

 

[altagirl]

To be honest, I saw headlines but haven't read a single article about it, basically along those lines. BASE jumping (especially frequently) is asking to die doing it sooner or later, so it's no surprise. Is that's what people choose, so be it. But I'm not into supporting it either.

 

[geargrrl]

Dean Potter well knew the risks and even spoke of them.

 

[Christy]

I think Egan makes a good point. After watching McConky, my biggest question was, if he didn't have an awestruck audience, if he didn't get all that attention from women (and men) would he still have done that stuff? Maybe, but I'd just as soon not be party to it by giving it any attention.

And I think the guys that do this in national parks are just the height of arrogance. It's illegal for good reasons, but apparently their own desires trump this. What about the impact on people that see this happen or have to deal with the aftermath? Oh I guess that's not as important as the jump. I wonder what these guys would say about poaching or other banned activities in NPs. Do they think that anything and everything should be allowed, or are they just special? I read this piece that questions whether the NPS is actually to blame because since it's banned, base jumpers then do it at iffier times (in dusk) to evade rangers. Give me a break. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ot-risk-cause-dean-potters-base-jumping-death

On another note, I feel a bit badly for the other guy that died at the same time as Dean--he's either left out, or described as his partner. You'd hardly know that 2 people died.

 

[bounceswoosh]

So, am I the only one here who when I start feeling comfortable with something and it doesn't seem risky anymore, or at least it seems comfortable, I need to go do something else that takes it to another level so that I get that rush?

I completely object to the term "sport-assisted suicide." If there were a 100% chance of dying on a particular run/drop/whatever, I am sure they wouldn't do it.

 

[Christy]

So, am I the only one here who when I start feeling comfortable with something and it doesn't seem risky anymore, or at least it seems comfortable, I need to go do something else that takes it to another level so that I get that rush?

That's not uncommon, I think. And I bet they felt that way. But the objection that I have is, base jumping isn't just something that feels risky, the way that so much does as we're advancing in a sport or activity, or that is subjectively risky. It, statistically, is very, very risky. There's something like 1000 people in the world doing it, and ~25 people a year die doing it (though I read it's hard to get a handle on the accurate number of deaths, since they may not all be reported). What other "sport" has anything close to that death rate? I wonder how that compares to, say, serving in combat in our military. So positive attention paid to it doesn't feel right to me.

Also, Dean commonly did this with his DOG. Ugh.

 

[altagirl]

So, am I the only one here who when I start feeling comfortable with something and it doesn't seem risky anymore, or at least it seems comfortable, I need to go do something else that takes it to another level so that I get that rush?

I completely object to the term "sport-assisted suicide." If there were a 100% chance of dying on a particular run/drop/whatever, I am sure they wouldn't do it.

No, not on that particular run, but it seems like everyone famous for doing that sport kills themselves sooner or later. It's not good odds, it's not "oh you might get hurt" - if you crash- you are almost certainly dead, and it does NOT seem like it can be mitigated enough (to make sense to me ) with judgement and skill. Obviously I'm no BASE jumper, so what do I know? I get stepping up your game as things get comfortable, but I guess personally, I think there is a limit somewhere, which is obviously a gray area.

They certainly COULD be doing it based purely on the rush, whether anyone ever pays attention or not. In which case, they're going to do it anyway and it doesn't matter. But I also think that there's a lot of "OMG that's the most bad-ass thing ever and you have to check out this video and Red Bull is sponsoring it and...." I choose not to support that in any way where I can make a decision about it. Same with truly extreme anything - I'm tired of it. I admit I used to, but I'm tired of hearing about families and children left behind by people who said as much as they knew their sport would be the death of them, but kept going. I'm not saying I don't get it. I'm saying I choose not to support it.

 

[altagirl]

That's not uncommon, I think. And I bet they felt that way. But the objection that I have is, base jumping isn't just something that feels risky, the way that so much does as we're advancing in a sport or activity, or that is subjectively risky. It, statistically, is very, very risky. There's something like 1000 people in the world doing it, and ~25 people a year die doing it (though I read it's hard to get a handle on the accurate number of deaths, since they may not all be reported). What other "sport" has anything close to that death rate? I wonder how that compares to, say, serving in combat in our military. So positive attention paid to it doesn't feel right to me.

Also, Dean commonly did this with his DOG. Ugh.

Agreed. And it also makes me angry to subject pets to this. People can choose to make extremely risky decisions if they really want to or are completely addicted to the rush. His dog (thankfully not included on the fateful trip) did not have any such choice. And you can't tell me that his dog couldn't have had just as much fun running around at a lake as jumping out of a plane.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Also, Dean commonly did this with his DOG. Ugh.

Ugh. Agreed. That's just cruel.

 

[bounceswoosh]

You know, the part about the 73 year old BASE jumper makes it clear to me that this isn't just something that young men with too much testosterone do. I just ... I can't picture doing it myself, but I have watched squirrel suit videos and wished I could do that. But I also had the misfortune of seeing a full break / amputation on my Facebook feed because a friend of a friend landed poorly. That was not what I wanted to see while eating breakfast.

But the thing is, I remember being someone who thought skiing through the trees was an insane risk. And now I do things that other people would think are insanely risky, but I understand the parameters. And it's clear that even the skiing I do (which is more cautious than the skiing a lot of people I know do) is far less fatal than BASE jumping, but I still can't bring myself to completely condemn BASE jumping, because I figure it's on a spectrum of risk. And I also think that the people who BASE jump would be finding some way to push the envelope. It's not like people who do this kind of thing, if they couldn't do it, would choose other activities that were much safer. I don't buy that.

 

[altagirl]

It's not like I'm suggesting it be banned or illegal or anything overall (though I do understand management of various locations banning it!) - I just don't want to reinforce people's overly risky behavior of any type. So yeah - that's my perception of the spectrum of risk, but it's based on facts as I know them.

There are millions of people skiing trees every year and only a handful die from any cause while skiing. That's just a case of someone saying that "it scares me, so it's dangerous." Or "it's dangerous if you have no skills and no business being there until you learn". But comparatively/statistically - BASE jumping really IS dangerous.

Just found this in a quick google search:

https://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/sports.html

Crude Death Rate per 100,000 participants:
BASE Jumping: 43.17
Skiing: 0.06

 

[altagirl]

^^ RE: that link: I do now want to know about the table tennis deaths.... It's kind of hilarious that table tennis ranks riskier than skiing.

 

[mustski]

^^ RE: that link: I do now want to know about the table tennis deaths.... It's kind of hilarious that table tennis ranks riskier than skiing.

Perhaps it's related to "beer pong!"

 

[bounceswoosh]

^^ RE: that link: I do now want to know about the table tennis deaths.... It's kind of hilarious that table tennis ranks riskier than skiing.

Maybe people running in one direction while looking in another?

 

[marzNC]

The table tennis death stat is based on Germany only. Undoubtedly drinking involved. Although I would guess a few might be cardiac arrest. High level TT is quite a work out. Ball can be moving fast enough to take less than 1/2 second to get to the other side. Believe it or not, there are TT players in Europe are full-time pro athletes making a good living.