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Knee complains off season

Discussion in 'Health, Fitness, Injuries & Recovery' started by newboots, May 18, 2017.

  1. newboots

    newboots Angel Diva

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    I can't remember hurting myself doing something athletic. Never hurt myself in karate, softball (short-lived though that was), skating, ice hockey, or skiing. Never hurt myself running or jogging, or hiking. I get hurt (1) around the house and (2) trying to exercise and get in shape. I fell on my stairs last summer and broke my first bone, as well as spraining an ankle. I've gotten sprains before, usually in more or less the same way.

    I once was using exercise videos to try to get in shape, and I hurt my knee. Then a (bad) PT gave me exercises to strengthen my core, and my abs were so weak that I strained my neck muscles so badly I got TMJ.

    Then there's this knee complaining again. Apparently I get inflammation in a tiny spot called Gerdy's Tubercle. "Gerdy's tubercle is a lateral tubercle of the tibia, located where the iliotibial tract inserts." [apologies, that's from Wikipedia.] It's like a tiny bruise, hurts to the touch (slightest), and complains when I squat. So I'm incredibly tentative doing squats. I have no idea how I hurt it this time. Perhaps just putting something in the lowest file drawer at work. I'm grumpy about it. Last time I hurt this, it hurt for a year. </grumbling>
     
  2. bounceswoosh

    bounceswoosh Moderator & Angel Diva Staff Member

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    I'm sorry. That sucks.

    Is it a form of inflammation, or is there inflammation as a result? I can list a whole raft of anti-inflammatory stuff that isn't NSAID if you are interested.
     
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  3. snowski/swimmouse

    snowski/swimmouse Angel Diva

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    Oh, so sorry @newboots ! I surely know how seemingly little things that "appear" can be painful for a long time...:hurt:
     
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  4. mustski

    mustski Ski Diva Extraordinaire

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    I am totally interested.
     
  5. newboots

    newboots Angel Diva

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    Yes, inflammation. I ice it but that hasn't seemed to help. I can take NSAIDS, but the idea of treating this tiny spot systemically with powerful drugs unsettles me. I've taken curcumin but it interferes with my GI tract. However, open to suggestions!
     
  6. bounceswoosh

    bounceswoosh Moderator & Angel Diva Staff Member

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    Okay, let's see

    Tart cherry. You can get it in capsules or as concentrate to drink as juice.

    Turmeric capsules. Unfortunately they still taste like turmeric. Supposedly it needs to contain black pepper to be most useful. Sadly, eating curry every day isn't quite enough. Although it couldn't hurt.

    There's a topical cream called Penetrex that seems to help, with the added benefit of making me giggle every time I hear the name. It also has minty stuff to make it just plain feel nicer.

    For icing, I bought the same packs my PT has - I couldn't find them to buy online, but they stay soft when frozen, so they really drape well and tuck close to the whole area nicely.

    For knees, of course there's fish oil, glucosamine with chondroitin and MSM, and I have had friends swear by Celadrin and by Biocell Collagen II from Natural Grocers.

    Can anyone actually take all of this stuff regularly? Not me. Does it work as well as Ibuprofen? Probably not. But it should be less damaging.

    Honestly, for me (not being able to take NSAIDs), frequent ice and elevation have visible results.

    There's also a K taping that works well for swelling and drains the fluid over 24-48 hours, and it works shockingly well - if your knee is extremely swollen. Not sure it helps.for minor swelling.

    You can also look up lymph drainage massage for the area.
     
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  7. Jilly

    Jilly Moderator Staff Member

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    Voltaren? But be careful you can burn yourself with it. Turmeric is curcumin. I take it for my arthritis.
     
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  8. bounceswoosh

    bounceswoosh Moderator & Angel Diva Staff Member

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    Every time I use Voltaren (actually Pennsaid), my skin gets irritated. In the US, it's prescription.
     
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  9. Jilly

    Jilly Moderator Staff Member

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    Over the counter here. That's odd, usually we're last for anything OTC. And you're right forget the main ingredient.
     
  10. bounceswoosh

    bounceswoosh Moderator & Angel Diva Staff Member

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    And just to be clear, because my original post wasn't - I don't mean "Voltaren is actually Pennsaid" - I meant "Voltaren and Pennsaid have the same active ingredient (maybe in different concentrations), and what I have is actually Pennsaid."

    Ahah! Voltaren is 1%, Pennsaid is 1.5%. I suppose that could be why the latter requires a prescription. Pennsaid is also only advertised for use with knees, not other joints - although if you think for a moment, it seems pretty likely it will work everywhere that Voltaren should (ie, all joints).
     
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  11. Jilly

    Jilly Moderator Staff Member

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    I had Pennsaid for a shoulder issue. Got the Voltaren at Costco for anywhere. Costco had the big tube and little (traveller) tube.
     
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  12. VickiK

    VickiK Angel Diva

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    I've had some luck with a product called Penetrex for my achy knees. At first I didn't feel any improvements, but using it over time does seem to make a difference. I got it on Amazon. For me it was more effective than arnica cream.
     
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  13. bounceswoosh

    bounceswoosh Moderator & Angel Diva Staff Member

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    Penetrex contains Arnica, so that makes sense. It's Arnica plus other stuff. https://penetrex.com/pages/ingredients


    I personally really enjoy the cooling sensation from the peppermint oil.
     
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  14. newboots

    newboots Angel Diva

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    That Penetrex looks interesting; my massage therapist/craniosacral genius would probably suggest Traumeel, which contains arnica and a lot of other homeopathic ingredients. I just can't get behind homeopathic theory. I've spent so much on natural remedies over the years and later read research debunking them, so I'm often skeptical.

    I'll go through your list, @bounceswoosh, and see what to try!

    Already part way there - glucosamine et al - check. Fish oil - check.
    And I agree - ice is probably the most effective idea for this little spot. And my shoulder/elbow/arm/wrist/fingers - that poor old left arm!
     
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  15. WaterGirl

    WaterGirl Ski Diva Extraordinaire

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    Its prescription in US so they can charge $30-40 a tube after the "insurance negotiated rate."

    Voltaren 12 hour is 2.32 % and available in Mexico for 10$ a tube.
     
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  16. santacruz skier

    santacruz skier Angel Diva

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    At the most!!! Think with the peso it's about $6.00 a tube. I'm going in July... Anyone want some?
     
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  17. newboots

    newboots Angel Diva

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    Hmm, $6/tube plus airfare. . .
     
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  18. SallyCat

    SallyCat Angel Diva

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    Rats, I'm sorry you're having pain; that sucks.

    I vaguely remember from old running days that the issue you describe is sometimes related to illiotibial band syndrome? I understand that you had a poor experience with PT, but it might be worth getting some recommendations for decent physical therapists and seeing if they can work with you.

    I had patellar femoral syndrome in the recent past and found PT to be a revelation, and it's kept the pain to an absolute minimum.

    I'm a big fan of accupuncture as well. I go to someone who is more empirical than spiritual if that makes sense.

    Good luck!
     
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  19. bounceswoosh

    bounceswoosh Moderator & Angel Diva Staff Member

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    I honestly don't know how anyone can claim Arnica products are homeopathic. There's tons in every cream that I've tried. Enough that you can smell the flowers. It's just an anti inflammatory plant.

    Arnica-Montana-600x461.jpg
     
  20. newboots

    newboots Angel Diva

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    I have a good PT now, thank goodness. Night and day. And I had an early, startling experience with acupuncture. Was just thinking about trying that again. Good ideas ... great minds!
     
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