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Is Vail taking over the ski universe? And is this a good thing?

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
I wrote a blog post with this same title last summer, when Vail purchased Whistler Blackcomb. And now that they've bought Stowe, I think it's a topic well worth exploring. Stowe is Vail's first foray into the East, and it's bound to shake up the Eastern ski world, especially. What do you think about having one company owning so many resorts?
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Not so sure I like it. I mean, if it translates to a cheaper lift pass and possible travel out west too, I guess that is good. But I already don't like how all Intrawest resorts feel so similar/ generic. Up in Ontario I always preferred driving down to E-ville over the closer Blue Mountain.
 

COchick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well it's great for Epic pass holders, but I do think there is a concern any time one company becomes a monopoly. VR is not there - YET - but it sure seems like they're headed that way. I would think that if they choose to throw so much money into different resorts, they should also be investing in the communities in which they abide. Which... they don't, to my knowledge.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have mixed feelings. The pricing model makes it very affordable for season pass holders, while jacking up day ticket prices. About a decade ago, you had to be in Colorado in the summer to get your first Epic pass, after which you could renew online. There may have even been a restriction at some point to Colorado addresses. I remember a friend flew out one summer just to get the pass. It seemed kind of naughty!

I think everyone knows the issues. I worry about Vail becoming a player on the east coast, where it's so hard for a local ski resort to keep the lights on in the first place. The question is, will people who have season passes at other mountains switch to the cheaper epic pass (assuming that's how it's actually done), thus starving the other places? Or will the extreme day ticket price keep others at smaller resorts? Or ... something completely different? It's hard to imagine that VR will make Stowe locals pay twice as much for an epic pass as Colorado locals do.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
It will be interesting to see what shakes out for the passes. I'm suspecting that there will be a price increase with the addition of Whistler and Stowe. Or more pass options. East epic with 5 days elsewhere for example. Not only was Stowe season pass higher, so is WB's.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It will be interesting to see what shakes out for the passes. I'm suspecting that there will be a price increase with the addition of Whistler and Stowe. Or more pass options. East epic with 5 days elsewhere for example. Not only was Stowe season pass higher, so is WB's.

<3 my Epic Local.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Well it's great for Epic pass holders, but I do think there is a concern any time one company becomes a monopoly. VR is not there - YET - but it sure seems like they're headed that way. I would think that if they choose to throw so much money into different resorts, they should also be investing in the communities in which they abide. Which... they don't, to my knowledge.
Here's a couple blog articles I found searching on "vail contributions to local community." Clearly have an interest in helping out in Colorado in some fashion. I wonder what Vail Corp. is doing in terms of charitable contributions for the communities near the recent midwest ski areas and around Tahoe. Depends on how much control for operating budget is given to senior management of places outside Colorado.

https://news.vailresorts.com/corpor...million-contribution-to-local-non-profits.htm

https://blog.vail.com/epicpromise-holiday-giving-campaign/

From the Vail website for employees about "Our Culture."

Screen Shot 2017-02-22 at 11.44.33 AM.png
 

Christy

Angel Diva
They may be good for some local charities (though it should be noted corporate giving is the norm, not sure if Vail gives more or less than expected for a corp their size) but I'm not sure they are good for the future of snow and skiing. Those interested can read the Powder Magazine article from 11/3/16. We can't discuss it here as it gets political but if you are interested you can search Google for Powder Magazine and "ski industry leaders" to learn more.
 

Blondeinabmw

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Regarding the impact on the other local mountains, FYI, we buy Summit Value passes each year, which gives us access to Vail's Breck (with some blackout dates) and Keystone, but also includes unlimited skiing at A-Basin - a non-Vail-Owned ski area. So the pass holder option includes a choice allowing support of the local area. We can't ski Vail, Beaver Creek or any of the other Vail-owned resorts with this particular pass, but it is a great deal - I think it was around $480 for adults for this 2016-17 season (there's a discount to buy it early). I'm not sure what Vail's monetary contribution is to A-Basin for pass revenue, but I do know the blackout dates at Breck drive significant traffic to those two resorts on holidays.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
... and in turn, skiers who hate Vail crowds sometimes decide to ditch their A Basin passes and ski RMSP or Loveland.

... it's complicated.
 

COchick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ahh... Loveland. I *really* need to ski there. I can't believe, as much as I've skied in Summit county, that I have yet to ski Loveland!! And the reason for that? Epic.
 

Lmk92

Angel Diva
That gave me a lot to think about. Thanks, @skidiva. Just because I read that, I'm going to visit my local (tiny) hill this week! :smile:
 

heather matthews

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've just finished skiing Vail,Breck,Keystone,A basin and a day at Copper(thankyou Katy) I did using an Epic local purchased online from NZ.Amazing value for me.I met some Aussies who all had Perisher season passes which allowed them to ski Breck,Vail Keystone and A basin with blackout days and that swayed them away from skiing elsewhere in the world.
 

Magnatude

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
We used Epic Local passes (also bought online from NZ) 2 years ago for a month at Park City. That was its first season under Vail ownership, so it was still operating in transition and probably wasn't the true "Vail experience", still with its slow old lifts etc. We also skied a fair bit at Canyons next door, which had been run by Vail resorts for some time by then. It definitely had faster lifts (with the usual notable exceptions being the ones that serve the more advanced terrain), and some monstrous on-mountain "homes". Maybe it had a more "corporate" feel to it, but it didn't really stand out as a difference between the two. And of course prior to Vail's takeover, Park City was already run by another ski resort chain, so it wasn't exactly what you'd call an independent, or community ski hill or whatever.

Anyway, the Epic Local pass was most certainly one of the deciding factors in our being based at Park City, as opposed to over in Salt Lake City, or Aspen, or Jackson, or Tahoe, or anywhere else. There is no doubt for us that the pass provided outstanding skiing value for the month we were in Utah. We did also manage a few days elsewhere, but because we were paying for daily lift tickets, there was a strong financial incentive to stay put in Park City. I have some regrets about that, because I wouldn't rate Park City as one of my top 5 places to ski, even within Utah, but when I'm effectively skiing there for free and I don't have to drive anywhere to do so, I'll make do with it.

Red Mountain was our final destination this January, when we travelled to British Columbia. (We skipped Whistler, so no Epic pass needed. But our 2016 season passes to a Mountain Collective member resort in NZ gave us 50% off at Revelstoke, so also great value for the 5 days we spent there.)

I don't exactly celebrate slow lifts as Red's marketing encourages us to do -- if you're really fit and strong, a high-speed chairlift is a great way to wring every drop of value out of your day on the mountain (for the less-fit, they are a useful recuperation tool). However my feeling is that slow, old lifts do deter some holidaying skiers, and where a ski resort is quite a long distance from a large population of local skiers, as Red is, you can end up with very uncrowded ski runs, which is exactly what we experienced. As a contrast, we spent the middle portion of our trip in Whitewater, which is even less developed than Red, but its proximity to the city of Nelson (20 minutes drive) ensured that, while it's a stretch to call it crowded, there could be a wait in the lift line, at least in the mornings. When I'm looking into destinations for ski holidays, avoiding queues and crowds is my priority (Park City was an exception for other reasons), and if that means slow lifts, so be it. More of a necessary evil, if you like.

Red is awesome, by the way :smile:.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It's funny about replacing lifts. Apparently they're replacing the Falcon chair at Breck, already a quad, with a six-pack. I hate six packs. I suppose they'd be fine if Breck would spring for a liftie to direct traffic at all times, but they don't, and humans can't seem to line up in groups of six without direction. DH pointed out that six packs are heavier, and so they can run in higher winds, which is certainly important at Breck. But still. Meh.

I guess I like 6 chair and E chair - doubles - at Breck because they leave a remnant of the feeling of a local hill. I wouldn't want every chair to be like that, but just a few ... particularly as gateways to stashes that get tracked out too quickly as is ...

I love Breck, despite the crowds, and that's the only reason I have an Epic pass. If I could have gotten a Breck-only season pass, I would have, but the only such offering has blackout dates at Breck.
 

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had a negative experience when Vail took over PC. They took over between the time many of us received event packets and the actual event. They actually raised the tickets prices 3 days before we all arrived. The snowpack was so poor that year, alot of us parents chose not to ski and only attend the event. As we milled around on training days however several of us were approached by Vail employees taking surveys. So I think they got the message and probably regretted it.
 

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