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Has Social Media Ruined the Powder Day?
- Thread starter ski diva
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marymack
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Spot on. I haven't witnessed any fights yet but I did witness someone start yelling at one of the guys working the turnstiles at Stowe this weekend because his buddy's pass had an issue and it wasn't letting him through and he was going to have to catch the next chair! And it wasn't even a powder day!
I don't think the author is lamenting about crowds in general (which we all know is an issue) more just the loss of those sacred surprise powder days when you skip work mid week to go to the mountain and are rewarded... Instead, due to the agressive marketing you have more days when people hear a storm is coming in and also skip work too.
I wonder how much of the rise in backcountry skiing is also due to social media? People seeing pictures of their friends getting untouched powder in the woods and not only wanting to experience it themselves (and get away from the chaos of resorts) but also as a form of one-up-man-ship (which we also know is a huge problem with social media)
I don't think the author is lamenting about crowds in general (which we all know is an issue) more just the loss of those sacred surprise powder days when you skip work mid week to go to the mountain and are rewarded... Instead, due to the agressive marketing you have more days when people hear a storm is coming in and also skip work too.
I wonder how much of the rise in backcountry skiing is also due to social media? People seeing pictures of their friends getting untouched powder in the woods and not only wanting to experience it themselves (and get away from the chaos of resorts) but also as a form of one-up-man-ship (which we also know is a huge problem with social media)
marzNC
Angel Diva
Marketing via snow updates using email and social media is certainly different than 10 years ago. How many people are using smartphones now? I would think most skiers who love powder access email and website from their smartphones.
I imagine the work environment is also different for many skiers. Being able to work from home, or have flex time, or answer some emails in between runs is probably possible for far more jobs than before.
I imagine the work environment is also different for many skiers. Being able to work from home, or have flex time, or answer some emails in between runs is probably possible for far more jobs than before.
I think it's a combination of factors. Apart from terrain parks, ski movies tend to focus on powder skiing, so that's what people want to do - because it looks amazing. Fat skis have made powder much more possible for lots of people who arguably wouldn't manage it on skinny skis (I include myself in this). Ski resorts are just responding to that. I don't like that I have to get to the hill almost 2 hours before the lifts open to guarantee untracked runs or that I have to strategise where to ski to avoid the queues later on (missing out on some runs I'd really like to do), but it feels hypocritical to grumble that other people are doing the same thing, for the same reasons.
Our local forecasts tend to be unreliable so not sure how many people still believe them and drive over 2 hours to get here on the off-chance that it will have snowed. I think in holiday season people come here anyway.
The untracked pow does go faster than it used to. The exceptions to this are the reverse powder day (when it snows all day and everyone goes home at lunchtime - ski the same line over and over, and it keeps filling in), and spring powder after most people have given up on skiing.
Somewhat related - heard in the lift queue the other day that a couple of people had decided not to go heli-skiing because it was 'too snowy'. So not everyone's into it evidently.
Our local forecasts tend to be unreliable so not sure how many people still believe them and drive over 2 hours to get here on the off-chance that it will have snowed. I think in holiday season people come here anyway.
The untracked pow does go faster than it used to. The exceptions to this are the reverse powder day (when it snows all day and everyone goes home at lunchtime - ski the same line over and over, and it keeps filling in), and spring powder after most people have given up on skiing.
Somewhat related - heard in the lift queue the other day that a couple of people had decided not to go heli-skiing because it was 'too snowy'. So not everyone's into it evidently.
marzNC
Angel Diva
In the southeast, you will hear plenty of complaining during the rare times there more than one inch of fresh snow in the groomers. However, those are also people who probably ski <5 days a season and have no idea that online forums exist just to talk about sliding on snow.
My impression is that the majority of skiers in Europe stay "on piste" and are quite content with long--very long--groomers.
That was my impression too - we looked for inbounds off piste when we skied there, but were often not sure if we were supposed to be in those areas.
I'm sadly not rich enough to understand, but who signs up for heli at over $1000 a day if they don't live for snowy days??? Pretty sure there are no refunds.
Christy
Angel Diva
The impact of social media has had on outdoor places in general has been huge. Basically, anything that makes a unique and spectacular photograph is now mobbed. All of the jade color lakes in Washington? Mobbed. (Search #colchucklake or #blancalake in Instagram and you'll see). Even the ones that require backpacking and scrambling. Interesting features like the Vance Creek Bridge (just put in the hashtag on Instagram...)? People from all over the world are trying to visit (it used to be a locals' secret), and it's on private property. And of course with the use comes the yahoos, the trash, the noise, the people that don't know anything about LNT. There has been quite a bit of discussion about whether hikers should share their photos if they know if will attract more people--alpine resources are fragile and some places are just getting hammered. I would never hashtag a location like that, and my FB/Instagram feeds are private.
https://www.wta.org/signpost/social-media-and-the-great-outdoors
I used to think this was a local problem due to all the new people in Seattle, but I know now it's not.
There's also just been a very steep rise in people using our public lands and participating in outdoor recreation in recent years (again, maybe related to social media).
So while I don't know that social media has in particular affected powder stashes or contributed to the rise in backcountry skiing, it's very easy to believe it has.
There might be another factor too. Everything is more extreme now. People hike, bike and run longer distances than they used to, backcountry skiing is growing more rapidly than lift served, people do all sorts of more extreme things than they used to (like those tough mudder races). Plus, ski technology has improved. So it may also be that more people used to stay on piste, and now everyone is just more likely to be skiing harder stuff and looking for powder stashes.
https://www.wta.org/signpost/social-media-and-the-great-outdoors
I used to think this was a local problem due to all the new people in Seattle, but I know now it's not.
There's also just been a very steep rise in people using our public lands and participating in outdoor recreation in recent years (again, maybe related to social media).
So while I don't know that social media has in particular affected powder stashes or contributed to the rise in backcountry skiing, it's very easy to believe it has.
There might be another factor too. Everything is more extreme now. People hike, bike and run longer distances than they used to, backcountry skiing is growing more rapidly than lift served, people do all sorts of more extreme things than they used to (like those tough mudder races). Plus, ski technology has improved. So it may also be that more people used to stay on piste, and now everyone is just more likely to be skiing harder stuff and looking for powder stashes.
Christy
Angel Diva
Helis won't fly when it's too snowy. I thought they needed a bluebird day to go. That's how they do it in AK...people wait around for days until the weather clears.
They fly here, short of major storms I think - there's a heap of glade skiing where they take people when it's not possible to get into the open alpine.
I'm basing this on hearing choppers up there, but I could be wrong...
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pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
"Six inches of new snow isn’t even a proper powder day, but you wouldn’t know it by checking out the Instagram feeds or the Facebook pages of your local mountain’s marketing department. "
He just barely touched on this, but I find it interesting. Anyone can make 6 inches look way deep. This isn't a new thing, I've read stories about those old Alta skiers sitting on their skis during filming so the snow is literally over their heads. But now we all have cameras. We all can cherrypick stills out of video. We all know how to slash turns. I sat and watched some K2 athletes (as in, you know their names) at Snowbird last year with a photog crew, hiking and rehiking a maybe 30-ft area, skiing and slashing turns for the camera. It was really funny looking in reality.
Three inches =
This was a report of 8 inches; where we were here, it was legit over the knee, but most of the rest of the mountain wasn't like this! lol, of course not.
Yes, this was a deep day (over 2 feet storm total), but he was squatting :D
As for me, my favorites are still the surprises. Yes, there are fewer, and yes, I can ski weekdays so I'm lucky, but when they call 4, and you show up to 8, and a bunch of new terrain is open so that means it's more like 16, and no one is around because it's not "a powder day," those are the days. Exceeding expectations is just fun. What has happened is that I think social media has raised expectations so high... They are hard to even meet, much less exceed.
The one thing I've learned ... just show up. Sure, read facebook and instagram, but do it with some realism. That day that Crested Butte closed because of "too much snow"? Well, it was fun the next day, but where was the 19" of snow that didn't get skied? We found a little bit, but we had to go waaaay off the beaten path. Two days later, on an 8" report, it was untracked knee-deep all morning. I had a run in the North Face that was better than any run I've had heliskiing or cat skiing, face shots for 2 or 3 dozen turns. Eight inches my ass.
So just GO, it will eventually happen.
He just barely touched on this, but I find it interesting. Anyone can make 6 inches look way deep. This isn't a new thing, I've read stories about those old Alta skiers sitting on their skis during filming so the snow is literally over their heads. But now we all have cameras. We all can cherrypick stills out of video. We all know how to slash turns. I sat and watched some K2 athletes (as in, you know their names) at Snowbird last year with a photog crew, hiking and rehiking a maybe 30-ft area, skiing and slashing turns for the camera. It was really funny looking in reality.
Three inches =
This was a report of 8 inches; where we were here, it was legit over the knee, but most of the rest of the mountain wasn't like this! lol, of course not.
Yes, this was a deep day (over 2 feet storm total), but he was squatting :D
As for me, my favorites are still the surprises. Yes, there are fewer, and yes, I can ski weekdays so I'm lucky, but when they call 4, and you show up to 8, and a bunch of new terrain is open so that means it's more like 16, and no one is around because it's not "a powder day," those are the days. Exceeding expectations is just fun. What has happened is that I think social media has raised expectations so high... They are hard to even meet, much less exceed.
The one thing I've learned ... just show up. Sure, read facebook and instagram, but do it with some realism. That day that Crested Butte closed because of "too much snow"? Well, it was fun the next day, but where was the 19" of snow that didn't get skied? We found a little bit, but we had to go waaaay off the beaten path. Two days later, on an 8" report, it was untracked knee-deep all morning. I had a run in the North Face that was better than any run I've had heliskiing or cat skiing, face shots for 2 or 3 dozen turns. Eight inches my ass.
So just GO, it will eventually happen.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Some places use snowcats as backup transportation, and yes, they would take skiers and riders to gladed areas.
Christy
Angel Diva
Here's a story about how someplace was ruined by social media. At some point people started using the hashtag #thatnwbridge rather than #vancecreekbridge, but the cat was out of the bag. To make matters even worse, the timber co that owns the land is so desperate to keep out the hoards that they have removed the railroad ties. You can see in the second link that people are still going out there, now it's just more dangerous than ever. The power of social media and a cool selfie=hugely powerful. It's shocking IMO what people will do for it.
https://exotichikes.com/the-closing-of-vance-creek-bridge-aka-that-nwbridge/
https://outdoor-society.com/the-end-of-the-vance-creek-bridge/
https://exotichikes.com/the-closing-of-vance-creek-bridge-aka-that-nwbridge/
https://outdoor-society.com/the-end-of-the-vance-creek-bridge/
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes, and you can get alerts so many ways for big snow reports. The thing is - by the time it's reported, it's going to be a heck of a drive, at least on I-70.
Opensnow has been a game changer. You can make some pretty solid plans around snow based on their predictions, at least around here.
This season has been interesting, rubbing elbows with people I normally wouldn't meet because I'd be on different lifts. I have ridden the lift with lots of people who were very intimidated by 3-5" on top of a perfectly smooth groomer. ... it's been a long time since I've thought like that. I'm sure I did, though.
I've had very few bad ski days, regardless of snow. Few enough that I'll always bet on a great day. The handful that didn't work out - well, that's what hot cocoa or a margarita are for.
newboots
Angel Diva
What a double-edged sword! Of course we want more people to get to know and appreciate the outdoors. Maybe they'll think about it when they vote! Or perhaps they'll contribute to nature conservation organizations.
On the other hand, we'd love to keep our local secrets to ourselves. Isn't the whole point to get away from people, their noise, trash, and aggravation? (That's the point for me!) My beloved hiking mountain, while not exactly a secret (it's a state park, after all), was vandalized during the height of election tensions with racist and election-related graffiti. They held a cleaning party and an interfaith blessing service. Every aspect of this was documented in local media (e.g., https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/interfaith_blessing_planned_at.html).
Behind all of this - our desire to escape into real nature and the desire of so many people to join in - is our growing population. All the places I live and have lived are much more crowded than they used to be. Strip malls, hundreds of acres of new housing developments, and condos are in places we used to take walks, former day camps, and just unspoiled land. The highways are crowded - around here you dare not leave for Vermont to our north on Friday evening, lest the traffic jams create big delays. Vermont! I remember way back when they built that highway . . . oh, never mind.
Nature is not the only victim. We are having shortages of water and energy. People hope for technology to solve these problems, but maybe we should encourage folks to have fewer children?
On the other hand, we'd love to keep our local secrets to ourselves. Isn't the whole point to get away from people, their noise, trash, and aggravation? (That's the point for me!) My beloved hiking mountain, while not exactly a secret (it's a state park, after all), was vandalized during the height of election tensions with racist and election-related graffiti. They held a cleaning party and an interfaith blessing service. Every aspect of this was documented in local media (e.g., https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/interfaith_blessing_planned_at.html).
Behind all of this - our desire to escape into real nature and the desire of so many people to join in - is our growing population. All the places I live and have lived are much more crowded than they used to be. Strip malls, hundreds of acres of new housing developments, and condos are in places we used to take walks, former day camps, and just unspoiled land. The highways are crowded - around here you dare not leave for Vermont to our north on Friday evening, lest the traffic jams create big delays. Vermont! I remember way back when they built that highway . . . oh, never mind.
Nature is not the only victim. We are having shortages of water and energy. People hope for technology to solve these problems, but maybe we should encourage folks to have fewer children?
NewEnglandSkier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The internet in general has contributed to places being more crowded, more well known. But it's true, as mentioned above--it's all fine and good to get a powder alert but unless you live only 15 min from the mountain it won't do you a lot of good since you still have to get there--and for some of us the drive is a few hours.
But it's not just skiing--take travel in general. In the old days before it was easy to post and review things on the internet, restaurants didn't get overrun with tourists from all over the globe. Now they do. In some ways it's good for business but it's also easier to become a victim of your own success. No place is really a hidden gem anymore and if it is, it won't stay that way for long.
But it's not just skiing--take travel in general. In the old days before it was easy to post and review things on the internet, restaurants didn't get overrun with tourists from all over the globe. Now they do. In some ways it's good for business but it's also easier to become a victim of your own success. No place is really a hidden gem anymore and if it is, it won't stay that way for long.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Christy so true. Surfline aka Surf lie has ruined the line up with its anticipated big swell days --every kook in LA is out on the day its predicted to be the biggest. I could go on with stories of stupidity in the water....The hype creates unruly crowds who are "anticipating" something and when fails to materialize, it becomes a very unpleasant hostile environment. I'm also over "Howard" and his letter telling everyone in LA when its going to dump. Honestly more vertical and fun in the drought years. And just like all the social media promoting local hikes with amazing waterfalls, yes thank you to the search and rescue crew who are there in my local So Cal mountains rescuing all the un-prepared thrill seeking hikers who are injured and can't make it out. DD and I witnessed this first hand two months ago. As the "locals" we knew how to get help and did our best to get SAR asap, however we witnessed an un-prepared hiker in a very traumatic accident, something we both won't forget for a long time.
Lets not even get into the trash, graffiti, additional crowds, traffic, accidents, drunk drivers etc.
Yes there are secret surf days when those who are local know the swell will hit early or late outside the parameters of the surf report, I do have days when I may be the only one out. And yes I've had my share of unanticipated extra powder days. However, its been very different in the past few years..... I'm sure I'm not the only one who notices.
Christy
Angel Diva
Oh wow @WaterGirl-- I had no idea what was going on with surfing.
One thing that baffles me is where all these people are coming from, what they were doing before, and what they aren't doing now. Were they just watching Netflix in their basement before Instagram photos inspired them to get outside?
One thing that baffles me is where all these people are coming from, what they were doing before, and what they aren't doing now. Were they just watching Netflix in their basement before Instagram photos inspired them to get outside?
geargrrl
Angel Diva
My experience is that the that horde management really depends on how close or not an area is to a major metropolitan area. Christy talks about certain areas in Cascades... well, yes. How to close 3.7 million people (Puget Sound metro population) are these areas? I've heard for years that Alpine Lakes wilderness is busy and full of people. even pre-social media.
Come to Eastern Washington, Idaho, Montana, British Columbia. Get away from the cities. You'll find a lot less of the issue than when areas are easily accessed within a couple of hours of lots and lots of people.
Come to Eastern Washington, Idaho, Montana, British Columbia. Get away from the cities. You'll find a lot less of the issue than when areas are easily accessed within a couple of hours of lots and lots of people.
