Diversity and Skiing

[santacruz skier]

I keep cheese crackers in the car in the summer to give to panhandlers, and HotHands in the winter. Nobody ever turns down the HotHands; I think many are happier with these than money. I can't give money - I've seen too many of these folks in court, strung out/in withdrawal/in big trouble - many people (once in court) admit openly that they use the money to buy alcohol or drugs.

Totally agree. That's why I'm more than happy to give food.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Except me because orange makes my glorious light brown skin look puke yellow and accentuates the lovely brown circles under my eyes, but everyone else should!

LOL! Pink is *not* my color, but you can barely see my face on a ski day anyway, so I get to wear any crazy color I want. (Fluorescent anything ... is that anyone's color??)

So to me if I question my thoughts, and try to recognize where they come from and acknowledge them, it's much better than pretending they don't exist. It makes my goal to treat every person with dignity and respect because that's what they deserve as fellow humans, as opposed to being without bias, because I don't think that's possible.

<3 ... exactly!

The standard one that is so hurtful to so many upstanding black men is that when walking down the street, women walking towards them grab their purses and crossing the street. For me, if I flash in that situation (really any situation where I'm alone with anyone I don't know) I don't ignore it, I start running my mental heuristics/decision tree. I look at age, grooming, dress, style of walk, cleanliness, affect, energy, surroundings, things in the environment that might mean I'm safe, things in the environment that might make me unsafe (if there is a crack house next door, I don't care if I hurt your feelings, not safe) and I always, always look at the person, acknowledge them and their personhood, and nod my head or speak, regardless. Because if for no other reason than it is much easier to hurt some

Yes, that's it. I do think it's important to trust your instincts when evaluating a person on the street, and that's where it gets tricky, because sometimes instinct is informed by BS racial biases. But I personally am much less bothered by a man of any race than I am by groups of young men. I was going to say I don't know why, but I just remembered something. Anyway. I am fundamentally distrustful of 3+ young men horsing around.

When I avoid looking at a beggar it's because I feel guilty about what I'm choosing to do, therefore it's my problem to be worked through. If I don't think it's a good idea to give money then I need to own it an feel OK, and therefore can still look and apologize for not having anything available to give.

If I feel obligated to do something, what can I do that I think is appropriate? When my commute took me past beggars on a regular basis I kept cheap cheese crackers in the car. Sometimes they would take them, sometimes not, but by doing that I could live with myself. These days I only occasionally run into beggars so I no longer have anything to give so I feel bad, which makes me not want to meet their eyes/look at them, but that's my problem.

Cheese crackers are a good idea.

I personally have an issue with pan handlers at intersections because I think they're unsafe. I feel awful for them, but I don't want to encourage someone to stand in a place where a distracted driver could easily cause an accident. We do give - lots - to a local charity that helps those in need in our community. I don't know if I should smile or not at these people, because I feel like smiling and then driving by is rude. But so is just ignoring them.

Then there's the fact that - I'm not joking - it's hard to tell the difference between pan handlers and dirt bag climbers/hikers in Boulder sometimes.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I keep cheese crackers in the car in the summer to give to panhandlers, and HotHands in the winter. Nobody ever turns down the HotHands; I think many are happier with these than money. I can't give money - I've seen too many of these folks in court, strung out/in withdrawal/in big trouble - many people (once in court) admit openly that they use the money to buy alcohol or drugs.

You have a more direct relationship to anyone in this situation than I do. I am uncomfortable judging how someone spends their money. There's a relevant Ani DiFranco lyric (there's a relevant Ani lyric for every situation):

They caught the last poor man on a poor man's vacation
The cuffed him and they confiscated his stuff
They dragged his black ass down to the station
And said, okay, the streets are safe now
All your pretty white children can come out and see spot run
And they came out of their houses
And they looked around but they didn't see no one

That phrase. "Poor man's vacation." How can I judge someone for wanting to get away from a life of poverty etc? And if I didn't give the person money, and they couldn't get their drug of choice, would that really be better? I don't know. Isn't it taking agency to try to tell someone how to use their money? I mean, I guess that's the point of the food or HotHands. You're offering them a gift, not money. HotHands is brilliant, by the way.

 

[newboots]

That phrase. "Poor man's vacation." How can I judge someone for wanting to get away from a life of poverty etc? And if I didn't give the person money, and they couldn't get their drug of choice, would that really be better? I don't know. Isn't it taking agency to try to tell someone how to use their money?

I've heard the argument that one should give money to addicts, because they might go into withdrawal and die. These days, given what's on the street, more likely to die from an OD, much more likely. I agree that it's not my position to decide for someone else what to do with their money.

I guess I'm used to making judgments about these choices, given the work that I do. It's my money to give away, keep, or buy HotHands/crackers with.

HotHands is brilliant, by the way.

Thank you! I can never handle the thought of being out there in the cold. And I must say I was pleasantly surprised at the enthusiasm of peoples' responses. Sometimes the crackers get a lukewarm response - not the HotHands.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I guess I'm used to making judgments about these choices, given the work that I do. It's my money to give away, keep, or buy HotHands/crackers with.

Yes, absolutely. Your comments just brought up something I brood about sometimes.

My dad once told me about a time when a guy came up with a big sob story about how he desperately needed $20 for ... some long convoluted story. My dad believed him. My dad gave him the money. My dad feared he was a sucker just being conned. I told him, well, you can afford it ... and maybe the guy *did* need the money for the reasons he gave. Maybe there *was* an emergency. I'd rather be the kind of person who helps people and risks getting taken advantage of, than play it safe and avoid helping people. Obviously, my dad would, too.

I'll never get filthy rich with that attitude!

 

[CrystalRose]

There's an interesting article on Powder.com on the National Brotherhood of Skiers and how its number are shrinking.

Oh man, I almost feel bad for the NBS because I had seriously considered joining one of their clubs but the local websites were ancient! Not that it matters but it's one of the first things you see. Their demographic does lean older and the website mentioned families. It just didn't seem like a good fit. Not that I have a problem with people outside my age group but I don't know. It reminds of a topic on Pugski about how to get Millennials skiing. It's really kind of a similar dilemma. I don't if they are actively looking for members but they need a new approach.

I feel like this may be a problem all ski clubs though. I don't know enough about them to be sure. I actually found a Meetup group that is similar to a ski club in that they have a ski house that everyone chips in on but everyone is in their 20s-40s.

 

[DeeSki]

There's an interesting article on Powder.com on the National Brotherhood of Skiers and how its number are shrinking.

Reading this article made me realise that I met NBS founder Ben Finley in Snowmass. I think it was 2009 and I happened to be there the same week as the NBS. I was clumsily clicking into my boots and he was standing beside me. Next thing I hear “Girl, your boots are so small! How come you don’t fall over?” I just burst out laughing. I’d been admiring him skiing all week. He’s got that technique that’s just elegant.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Oh man, I almost feel bad for the NBS because I had seriously considered joining one of their clubs but the local websites were ancient! Not that it matters but it's one of the first things you see. Their demographic does lean older and the website mentioned families. It just didn't seem like a good fit. Not that I have a problem with people outside my age group but I don't know. It reminds of a topic on Pugski about how to get Millennials skiing. It's really kind of a similar dilemma. I don't if they are actively looking for members but they need a new approach.

I feel like this may be a problem all ski clubs though. I don't know enough about them to be sure. I actually found a Meetup group that is similar to a ski club in that they have a ski house that everyone chips in on but everyone is in their 20s-40s.

I think the article talked about how ski clubs in general are falling out of favor. I suspect ski clubs are generally going to skew older ... people who would rather meet in person rather than on the internet? Just a guess.

Even though I happen to ski with a lot of people multiple decades older than me - I also wouldn't be motivated to join a ski club with mostly people older than me. I met those older people organically, and we enjoy the same terrain and pace. I do not believe they're typical for skiers of that age.

Still ... it's sad to see something wither. I think it's great what the NBS was trying to do, and I had no idea they had a goal of getting more black athletes successful in snow sports. That's so cool!

(The first time I heard about this organization was on Blackish a couple of years ago ...)

 

[CrystalRose]

Still ... it's sad to see something wither.

Exactly. This may be something that
I would be interested in 15+ years but will it exist then? Maybe it's an end of an era for that...

 

[ski diva]

I think the article talked about how ski clubs in general are falling out of favor. I suspect ski clubs are generally going to skew older ... people who would rather meet in person rather than on the internet? Just a guess.

Even though I happen to ski with a lot of people multiple decades older than me - I also wouldn't be motivated to join a ski club with mostly people older than me. I met those older people organically, and we enjoy the same terrain and pace. I do not believe they're typical for skiers of that age.

Skiing in general is skewing older. I was recently at a presentation by the SIA where this was discussed in great detail. It's a real problem.

 

[santacruz skier]

I do not believe they're typical for skiers of that age.

Ah you'd be surprised.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Ah you'd be surprised.

Well, humanity has a wide range. But I know a lot of people of the same age who would think they're nuts.

 

[santacruz skier]

Well, humanity has a wide range. But I know a lot of people of the same age who would think they're nuts.

My friend I ski with on Europe trips is expert, has condo at crested butte and skis the extremes there AND just turned 75!!!!

 

[VickiK]

Echoing what @santacruz skier is getting at, the people who join ski clubs do so to make skiing more affordable, more enjoyable with the camaraderie, but the priority for most of them is still to ski, and they're usually pretty gun-ho about it, whatever the age bracket.

 

[santacruz skier]

I've done several trips the past few decades with local ski groups to Canada and Colorado as well as a group from San Antonio (good friend from there) on several trips to Europe. The San Antonio group (mostly older than me) were mostly advanced/expert skiers so I guess I don't quite understand the comment about older skiers. Also on a trip to Steamboat , I met up with an "over the hill group" that were all older than me and awesome skiers. Not everyone over 50 is a slug.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Jeesh! Okay, I retract my comment.

 

[ski diva]

Jeesh! Okay, I retract my comment.

Young whippersnapper. Get offa my lawn!

 

[echo_VT]

i haven't read the whole thing but the premise sounds about right.
the marketing is mostly targeting white Americans, not ethnic minorities. and ethnic minorities are growing more in percentages.

to increase marketshare , marketing to ethnic minorities seems a no brainer. meaning in advertisements - put people who look like them on the covers/ads. it will help.

Hunter Mtn i think knows some of this. they have Spanish, Russian and Mandarin (Chinese) speaking instructors. however that said, their marketing though could use people of color. they have people from NYC come up in buses. i think there's a group called Black friends who ski among others. several Asian groups come to the mountain already. on Christmas Day they had buses of Chinese come in the hundreds for lessons. Since many don't celebrate Christmas but have the day off from work, it kind of worked out perfectly in that regard. in terms of higher end travel, i read that blacks are the one group that is spending their dollars more than their peers when it comes to travel experiences.

i'm sure Bear Mtn in California has similar experiences. any mountain close to an urban hub should observe this. but the sport is dying off somewhat b/c not enough is being done to attract visitors.

 

[bounceswoosh]

to increase marketshare , marketing to ethnic minorities seems a no brainer. meaning in advertisements - put people who look like them on the covers/ads. it will help.

Never underestimate an entrenched white person's ability to ignore other races entirely.

 

[echo_VT]

Never underestimate an entrenched white person's ability to ignore other races entirely.

i see it in the movies and TV so i'm not surprised it's completely absent from advertisements.