Diversity and Skiing

[bounceswoosh]

I've had an Asian American ski instructor at Breck.

I'm just going to ask - fully recognizing that there are over 800 instructors at Breck, but I've seen very few non-whites - was it JJ?

 

[Pequenita]

I think so. If he was teaching in 2005/6.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I think so. If he was teaching in 2005/6.

Probably! But I guess it's a lot to ask you to remember someone from more than a decade ago ...

 

[vanhoskier]

The past 2 seasons, I've noticed large groups of Chinese-Americans skiing at local small areas. Most of them own their own equipment so clearly they have invested in the sport and are skiing fairly regularly. I've also noticed a smaller number of African-Americans and Indian-Americans doing the same.

Pennsylvania, where I live, is a weird state (which is why some call it Pennsyltucky). The center of the state and its rural regions are mainly white, while the cities and associated suburbs have become much more multicultural (while my little corner of the world, not far away from the "city," is mostly Old-Order Mennonite....horse and buggy)!

In the high school where I teach, diversity has increased tenfold in the last 10 years. We have 50 languages spoken at my school, and everyone knows when El-Eid and Ramadan is because many students observe these holidays. My honors classes consist of mostly Chinese-American, Indian-American, and Pakistani students....very few white students in the advanced science courses anymore. With this drive to succeed and hopefully the properity that follows, I hope to see more diverse groups enjoying skiing.

 

[MissySki]

My honors classes consist of mostly Chinese-American, Indian-American, and Pakistani students....very few white students in the advanced science courses anymore.

This is quite interesting, out of curiosity, what do you attribute to the lack of white students in the advanced science courses there? It's great that it's more diverse, but I wonder why there would be the drop off in the white population in these classes too. I personally always found my high school honors and AP science/math classes to be racially diverse, but more heavily gender specific with a higher male to female ratio. College was the same way. The funny part is since I've been working in the industry, it always seems to be more women in the workplace than men, still somewhat racially diverse.. although I also do tend to see more men in the management types of roles in the same places.

 

[MI-skier]

I'm Asian and I do consider skiing definitely an expensive sport. Ergo as with most expensive sports mainly dominated by a white/upper class. We ski often at Blue Mtn north of Toronto and I do see quite a few Asian there. Out west and up north in MI, not as much. I also live in the most expensive public school district and it is the norm to pay for tutors not b/c your kid is doing poorly but b/c you want them to excel and be the top of the class.

 

[CrystalRose]

Finally something I can speak to! I’m Black and I know I’m going to rehash a lot of points already made but…


Barriers:


1. Cost

I don’t even think this is entirely poor vs rich. For a young person with a fair amount of student loan debt, skiing can be seen as a money pit. It’s not like it’s a onetime fee of even $1000 (boots, skis, helmet, clothes, lift tickets, etc.). It’s a yearly cost for maintenance of equipment as things wear out and for lift tickets. So unless you really love it price is a barrier even if you’re not poor.

2. Exposure

If you don’t know anyone in your immediate family or circle of friends who does it can seem inaccessible.

3. Distance

It was already mentioned that we only make up like 13% of the population. Typically we live in the South and other large Metropolitan areas (not too many in Idaho or Wyoming). That means if you want to go skiing you have to be willing to get there. That may be fine one time but you'd have to really enjoy it to drive 2+ hours or fly to do it regularly.

4. Risk

Let’s not kid ourselves, people die doing this sport even just riding the ski lift. As I’ve heard it explained by family members: “You’re strapping wooden planks to your feet and hurtling down a mountain… uhhh no! You’re crazy!”

5. Cultural Differences/ Representation

There’s a lot of posturing in the African American community especially (or mostly) for younger people. Everyone wants a little street cred or swagger and skiing or even snowboarding doesn’t really fit into that persona. The people that younger people want to emulate (basketball players, football players, and rappers) aren’t skiing. Now this goes away with age but then it comes back to Barriers 1 and 2. And this persona isn’t only for “inner city youth”, I know a decent amount of “affluent” African American guys who were always trying to prove how “down” and “hard” they are. There’s a funny story about just that: https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/04/living/feat-deion-sanders-son-hood/index.html. TL,DR: Deion Sanders son says he loves hood donuts on Twitter. Deion Tweets back “you're a Huxtable with a million $ trust fund stop the hood stuff! Lololol. Son. #Truth”. I can’t tell how often I’ve seen this one! This comes down to representation. There is no one in main stream media that looks like us doing this. This makes for a vicious cycle.

6. Education/ Gender

As everywhere it seems, there are more women than men getting higher education. https://time.com/4064665/women-college-degree/ “In the 25-34 age group, 37.5% of women have a bachelor's degree or higher, while only 29.5% of men do.” This is especially pronounced in the African American community https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72. I bring this up because with education generally comes earning power to spend on what can be seen as a frivolous hobby. I find it to be rare that women are going to participate in an outdoor activity like this if their male counterparts are not. We already know the ratio of women to men skiers. Now they may do it as a “Girl’s Trip” or “Women’s Retreat” but that doesn’t make them “skiers”.

7. Perceived “Whiteness”

I hesitate to put it on here but it’s the truth. A lot (but not all) of African Americans don’t want to do things that are deemed too “white”. We can add camping or any adventure activity or extreme sport. “You’re going camping?! That’s so white!”, “You listen to rock music?! That’s so white!”. People don’t want to be caste out of their social group and/or racial identity and perceived as “other”. You become the weird one.. quirky.. eccentric. The article even mentions this:

“Is it difficult being the one or the other? It’s a challenge,” says Littleton. “Economics is a big obstacle, but another would be the realization by an individual who is considering making a life in the mountains that there is a distinct possibility they will always be the other, the only one. And having to accept that, and the things that get wrapped up in it… Admittedly, it can get lonely. You don’t have the ability to be with somebody who sees the world the way you see the world, and also be able to have those discussions. Your life is somewhat tempered in a way.”

Or another quote that exemplifies this experience:

Look at these black college students today. They’re worried about somebody black jumping in their face and saying, “You’re not black enough. You’re a Harvard kid, a turncoat, a traitor, you speak standard English, you get straight A’s—those are all white things.” And they had to put up with that all their lives, probably. I give a speech to the black freshmen at Harvard each year, and I say, “You can like Mozart and ice hockey . . .”—and then I used to say “golf,” but Tiger took over golf!—“and Picasso and still be as black as the ace of spades. You know, there are 35 million black people in this country and there are 35 million ways to be black.” ---Henry Louis (“Skip”) Gates Jr.

Now this one again I see lessens with age and people become more accepting. Some of these things aren't just a minority thing. Some of this is just being young and/or not comfortable with yourself and if it's young people they are trying to attract well....

So what can the ski industry do? That I don’t know. Put more diversity in ads would definitely help but there’s so many hurdles within our own community that makes it hard thing to even want to try.

 

[vanhoskier]

This is quite interesting, out of curiosity, what do you attribute to the lack of white students in the advanced science courses there? It's great that it's more diverse, but I wonder why there would be the drop off in the white population in these classes too. I personally always found my high school honors and AP science/math classes to be racially diverse, but more heavily gender specific with a higher male to female ratio. College was the same way. The funny part is since I've been working in the industry, it always seems to be more women in the workplace than men, still somewhat racially diverse.. although I also do tend to see more men in the management types of roles in the same places.

Very simply: Family culture and values. Asian, Indian, Pakistani, Middle Eastern parents have a deep respect for education and the hard work that goes along with it. And for the most part, for teachers. They view education as something to be earned, while white families see education as something that is "given." I know I'm speaking in broad terms, but after 25 years, of teaching, I don't know how else to articulate it. I see a huge amount of entitlement with many of my white students that just do not exist with my "brown" students.

On our trip to the state science fair competition this year, 24/25 students were "brown." One was white. Same for my honors classes rosters, lists of students receiving awards, etc. With these statistics, there is simply no other explanation other than differences in culture/value placed on education.

At Christmas and the end of the year, it's common for me to get thank-you cards and small gifts (and some, not so small) from my Asian/Indian/Pakistani/Middle Eastern students. White students? Hardly ever.

The percentages of African American and Hispanic students taking higher level science courses is also increasing. Some of these students, to their parents' chagrin, struggle with juggling academic success and racial identity.....they still want to be "cool" and doing well in chemistry class is not "cool." Luckily, their parents do not put up with this mentality and want their children to grow up and succeed.

Interestingly, the lowest-level science courses now consist of predominantly white students. And their parents are completely disengaged from the educational process.

As far as gender, I see more and more female students in the science and technology courses than ever, to the point that honors courses have a higher proportion of females. Again, on our state science fair trip, we had 18 females and 7 males attend. My husband, who is a geology professor, has more female geology students attend graduate schools than males, every year.

A weird side note: I took a survey through Harvard University on unconscious bias. The result? I identify more with black people than with white people (I'm white). Not sure if that has to do with my education, books I've read, or that fact that I've spent many months (at different times) among black South Africans in their country. That said, I'd never pretend to know what it's like to be black, at all.

 

[MissySki]

Very simply: Family culture and values. Asian, Indian, Pakistani, Middle Eastern parents have a deep respect for education and the hard work that goes along with it. And for the most part, for teachers. They view education as something to be earned, while white families see education as something that is "given." I know I'm speaking in broad terms, but after 25 years, of teaching, I don't know how else to articulate it. I see a huge amount of entitlement with many of my white students that just do not exist with my "brown" students.

On our trip to the state science fair competition this year, 24/25 students were "brown." One was white. Same for my honors classes rosters, lists of students receiving awards, etc. With these statistics, there is simply no other explanation other than differences in culture/value placed on education.

At Christmas and the end of the year, it's common for me to get thank-you cards and small gifts (and some, not so small) from my Asian/Indian/Pakistani/Middle Eastern students. White students? Hardly ever.

The percentages of African American and Hispanic students taking higher level science courses is also increasing. Some of these students, to their parents' chagrin, struggle with juggling academic success and racial identity.....they still want to be "cool" and doing well in chemistry class is not "cool." Luckily, their parents do not put up with this mentality and want their children to grow up and succeed.

Interestingly, the lowest-level science courses now consist of predominantly white students. And their parents are completely disengaged from the educational process.

As far as gender, I see more and more female students in the science and technology courses than ever, to the point that honors courses have a higher proportion of females. Again, on our state science fair trip, we had 18 females and 7 males attend. My husband, who is a geology professor, has more female geology students attend graduate schools than males, every year.

A weird side note: I took a survey through Harvard University on unconscious bias. The result? I identify more with black people than with white people (I'm white). Not sure if that has to do with my education, books I've read, or that fact that I've spent many months (at different times) among black South Africans in their country. That said, I'd never pretend to know what it's like to be black, at all.

This is very interesting. I myself grew up quite poor and I'm also the first person in my family to attend college. My parents put a very large emphasis on education being the way to a better life for me than what they had and financial freedom that they could only dream of at that time, but I had to navigate what that meant and the correct path to take because they hadn't had the same experiences or high level classes I embarked on so they couldn't offer much help or guidance beyond encouragement. I was very motivated to take in everything I possibly could and to excel at as high a level as I could all throughout my schooling. B's were not good enough, honors classes weren't good enough if there were advanced and AP options etc. My parents wanted me to attend a catholic high school at the time as I went to catholic school from K-8 grade, but I refused because the catholic high school didn't offer any AP classes. My trajectory was my own, but I was also very much taught to respect education and those in a position of authority, which includes any teacher or instructor I've ever had. It's baffling to me the things I hear nowadays from teachers of parents blaming everything on them if their child does poorly along with the entitlement that's been bred into this generations with helicopter parents that even tag along for job interviews, etc. I don't understand how one generation obviously worked hard to be in successful positions and places in life, yet they forgot that part and think their kids shouldn't have to do the same to be successful and that it should be handed to them. It's sad that students are not taking advantage of the opportunities in front of them at such a young age which can have large consequences for competing on a larger stage when applying to college and beyond that. Not to say that everyone should take the highest level science classes or needs to, but your example seems so severely skewed that it's pretty surprising and alarming to me as an outsider.

 

[marzNC]

Never know what will turn up . . . turns out there is a ski school that is specifically for Asians, including people who need instruction in Chinese or Vietnamese. The instructors listed for 2016-17 were all Chinese and included engineers and Microsoft software engineers. It's based at The Summit at Snoqualmie in WA.

https://ullr.com/ullrsinoski.htm

I wonder if the emphasis on education extends to ski school within the immigrant Asian community that ends up on the slopes. Based on my experience at Massanutten, it's certainly easier to convince Chinese-American parents to invest in ski school for their kids. As for the adults who are interested in learning, they seem no more likely to take lessons after a never-ever class than any other novice skiers.

 

[newboots]

So what can the ski industry do? That I don’t know. Put more diversity in ads would definitely help but there’s so many hurdles within our own community that makes it hard thing to even want to try.

Hmm. . . about the Perceived Whiteness. I was thinking about this, and then you mentioned the ads (as have others).

I'm a middle-class, middle-aged white woman, admittedly liberal, but you know what? I'd be (even) more attracted to skiing if there were people of color in the ads. It wouldn't look so . . . white and privileged. Most of the people I know of my daughter's generation are much more at home in a multi-racial, multi-cultural world. Skiing might be more attractive even to white young folks if it looked more like their world, and the world most of us hope for.

 

[CrystalRose]

I also live in the most expensive public school district and it is the norm to pay for tutors not b/c your kid is doing poorly but b/c you want them to excel and be the top of the class.

The percentages of African American and Hispanic students taking higher level science courses is also increasing. Some of these students, to their parents' chagrin, struggle with juggling academic success and racial identity.....they still want to be "cool" and doing well in chemistry class is not "cool." Luckily, their parents do not put up with this mentality and want their children to grow up and succeed.

Interestingly, the lowest-level science courses now consist of predominantly white students. And their parents are completely disengaged from the educational process.

This reminds me of a story my uncle told me. His son (who is now an Engineer) received a B in math. He went to the school and demanded a tutor for him. They said why he's not failing! He said something along the lines of "If he received a B he obviously doesn't fully understand the concepts being taught." After some back and forth they allowed him to join the after school tutoring group. How many parents are this involved with their children's schooling? How many parents would've excepted the B (I know mine would've!)? This is exactly the mentality and level of engagement about @MI-skier was talking about. I have a Chinese friend who loves to tell the story about his mother chewing him out after he came home with a B in English. She says, "A "B" in English? You speak English!!" Which BTW is not her primary language which makes it all the funnier!

 

[VickiK]

I share a lot of what many have already posted, as far as family background, cultural stuff, economics. Watching tv, skiing looked graceful, daring, thrilling, set in beautiful mountains. As a Los Angeles native, even the snow was exotic.

It was after I was working & earning money, after having a boyfriend say he'd take me, that I started to ski. I was seen as the athletic, adventurous, and sort of wild & crazy one in the circle of family and friends.

 

[santacruz skier]

I never skied until I was 25, married, and trust fund baby husband (now divorced almost 40 yrs) said , hey you want to go skiing? He grew up with parents taking him skiing...

 

[vanhoskier]

This is very interesting. I myself grew up quite poor and I'm also the first person in my family to attend college. My parents put a very large emphasis on education being the way to a better life for me than what they had and financial freedom that they could only dream of at that time, but I had to navigate what that meant and the correct path to take because they hadn't had the same experiences or high level classes I embarked on so they couldn't offer much help or guidance beyond encouragement. I was very motivated to take in everything I possibly could and to excel at as high a level as I could all throughout my schooling. B's were not good enough, honors classes weren't good enough if there were advanced and AP options etc. My parents wanted me to attend a catholic high school at the time as I went to catholic school from K-8 grade, but I refused because the catholic high school didn't offer any AP classes. My trajectory was my own, but I was also very much taught to respect education and those in a position of authority, which includes any teacher or instructor I've ever had. It's baffling to me the things I hear nowadays from teachers of parents blaming everything on them if their child does poorly along with the entitlement that's been bred into this generations with helicopter parents that even tag along for job interviews, etc. I don't understand how one generation obviously worked hard to be in successful positions and places in life, yet they forgot that part and think their kids shouldn't have to do the same to be successful and that it should be handed to them. It's sad that students are not taking advantage of the opportunities in front of them at such a young age which can have large consequences for competing on a larger stage when applying to college and beyond that. Not to say that everyone should take the highest level science classes or needs to, but your example seems so severely skewed that it's pretty surprising and alarming to me as an outsider.

It does seem skewed, but it's my reality at school. If I could, I'd love to post the names of kids on my honors roster and who participated in science fair.....it's just remarkable to see how lopsided it is.

And....parents of my kids are now MY age.....and I was taught to respect my teachers and work hard. I had nothing handed to me. So I do not understand why parents, who are part of my generation, coddle their kids to the point where they cannot cope with any minor let-down.

I don't want skiing to be a white person's sport....I want to see more diversity.

 

[marzNC]

It does seem skewed, but it's my reality at school. If I could, I'd love to post the names of kids on my honors roster and who participated in science fair.....it's just remarkable to see how lopsided it is.

I don't think it's just your school, although there is undoubtedly a regional factor at work. My husband has volunteered with a non-profit set up to promote STEM education in North Carolina K-12 schools. They give out awards to teachers and students at an annual banquet. The award winners come from all over the state. Most of the students honored are non-white, predominantly Chinese-American or Indian-American. While many are from major metropolitan areas like Raleigh or Charlotte, there are some from smaller cities as well. For the Student Leadership award, 7 of the 10 winners from the last 10 years were girls.

 

[vanhoskier]

I don't think it's just your school, although there is undoubtedly a regional factor at work. My husband has volunteered with a non-profit set up to promote STEM education in North Carolina K-12 schools. They give out awards to teachers and students at an annual banquet. The award winners come from all over the state. Most of the students honored are non-white, predominantly Chinese-American or Indian-American. While many are from major metropolitan areas like Raleigh or Charlotte, there are some from smaller cities as well. For the Student Leadership award, 7 of the 10 winners from the last 10 years were girls.

Oh, I didn't say it was just my school....from attending regional/state/national events, I know it's a phenomenon pretty much everywhere. I just meant that's what I see at my school, since that's where I work. :-)

 

[marzNC]

Oh, I didn't say it was just my school....from attending regional/state/national events, I know it's a phenomenon pretty much everywhere. I just meant that's what I see at my school, since that's where I work. :-)

I understood what you meant. I was just giving another example from a different region where people might not expect so many Asian-American students.

 

[Pequenita]

Well, this showed up in my In Box today.

 

[marzNC]

Well, this showed up in my In Box today.

Interesting . . . titles in English, Spanish, Chinese, and Arabic. Clips of an Asian-American wife and mother with a white husband and their kid, sit-ski white woman, Hispanic man who likes fishing, and an African-American instructor with kids on the slopes. Wonder how they decided who should receive the video? (just musing, not expecting an answer)

Squaw/Alpine started a partnership in 2016 with the new ski resort in China that will be used during the Olympics. At the time, they also planned to try to make Squaw/Alpine more friendly to Chinese speaking guests.

" . . .
To welcome more prospective Chinese guests, Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows will be participating in the Visit California “China Ready” program. On site, the resort plans to create Chinese language signage and marketing materials, train staff on how best to cater to Chinese guests, and design specialized dining and amenities options geared toward the Chinese consumer. Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows will also be working with Chinese tour operators to create customized group packages. Online, the resort has plans to roll out a more robust Chinese language website, and is looking at the possibility of a dedicated WeChat channel, a popular Chinese social media platform. Furthermore, airline accessibility for Chinese travelers is currently increasing across the state: California will have 124 weekly nonstop flights to China by the end of 2016, and San Francisco International Airport currently serves nine Chinese cities, with new United Airlines nonstop service to Hangzhou launching July 2016. . . ."

https://squawalpine.com/explore/blo...partners-china’s-genting-secret-garden-resort