Diversity and Skiing

[marzNC]

Agree there is a cultural element to why some groups are not as interested in skiing. My experience is mostly with the current generation of immigrants of Chinese descent who came to the U.S. as students (college or graduate school) after 1980 or so and settled on the east coast or in the midwest. Meaning those who are in their 30-40s and still have kids in school. Often the kids are booked in weekends for Chinese school, music lessons, etc. So even if the family enjoys skiing, it's more likely to happen only once or twice a year.

That said, I was surprised at how many Asian-Americans I saw at Wachusetts (an hour from Boston) during the weekends in late season. I went to school in the Boston area and have a sense of how much the ethic/racial mix has changed in the last few decades. Have also seen many Chinese-American families from DC at Massanutten (2.5 hour drive) where the kids and teens are on the slopes while the parents, and sometimes grandparents, hang out at the lodge. However, I've noticed that more parents are giving skiing or boarding a try. Some like it, some don't. No different than anyone else who didn't grow up with a family who skied.

The fact that the Winter Olympics will be held in Asia in 2018 could be factor for some Asian-descent families to consider trying snowsports.

 

[Pequenita]

Even within different minority groups, there is a lot of diversity. I am certain that despite seeing a lot of Asian Americans on various ski slopes, there are ethnic groups within "Asian American" who do not have access to skiing. The lack of discussion on Asian Americans in the original article also is an example of how as a minority group, they are often perceived as having made it and are not/no longer subject to unequal access, etc., i.e., the model minority.

 

[marzNC]

Even within different minority groups, there is a lot of diversity. I am certain that despite seeing a lot of Asian Americans on various ski slopes, there are ethnic groups within "Asian American" who do not have access to skiing. The lack of discussion on Asian Americans in the original article also is an example of how as a minority group, they are often perceived as having made it and are not/no longer subject to unequal access, etc., i.e., the model minority.

Agree. I doubt the southeast Asia immigrants who came as refugees in San Francisco are making their way to the slopes. The Chinese-American skiers and boarders are more likely to be from clans who have deep roots in California or parents who came as college or graduate students. I would guess that there are Japanese-Americans in California who enjoy snowsports. I've seen a few Japanese-American families at Massanutten but not nearly as many as Chinese-American families.

 

[marzNC]

Found an article from 2006 around the time of the winter Olympics about diversity on ski slopes in northern California. The author was Asian-American. Includes some statistics that are interesting. Wonder how the breakdown has changed after a decade.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article...an-uphill-climb-Ski-2504396.php#photo-2676170

" . . .
Nationally [in 2006], only about 10 percent of Alpine skiers are nonwhite. In California, nonwhites account for 35 percent of snowboarders and 10 percent of downhill skiers, according to the LeisureTrends Group, a market research firm in Colorado.

That lags far behind the demographics of the Bay Area, which is roughly half nonwhite. Asian Americans account for 22 percent of the population, Latinos 20 percent and Africans Americans 7 percent.
. . ."

 

[bounceswoosh]

Agree. I doubt the southeast Asia immigrants who came as refugees in San Francisco are making their way to the slopes. The Chinese-American skiers and boarders are more likely to be from clans who have deep roots in California or parents who came as college or graduate students. I would guess that there are Japanese-Americans in California who enjoy snowsports. I've seen a few Japanese-American families at Massanutten but not nearly as many as Chinese-American families.

To me, this speaks again to class, social norms, and economics being at least as relevant as race.

Can you afford it?
Is it something your friends do?
Is it something you can see yourself doing (because your demographic is represented)?

These play across both race and culture.

Heard a really interesting podcast talking about the fact that no one acknowledges class in the US, but it's a real thing. For example, a plumber may make more money than a software engineer, but the former is blue collar and the latter is white collar, and social norms are very different.

 

[santacruz skier]

I would guess that there are Japanese-Americans in California who enjoy snowsports.

Yes indeed. As a matter of fact, my BF's son in law is Japanese American and has skied since he was a kid. Both parents ski and they all grew up in the SF area. Very prominent family (SIL has JD from Northwestern and both parents (older than me) are college grads as well. There is a good size Japanese population in SF and many are quite affluent and many ski. The Tahoe resorts do have a diverse mix of skiers , but they most likely have resources to do so.
Also on trips to Europe and Canada, there are quite a few Asian/Asian American skiers. Whistler in particular and Wengen and Zermatt in Switzerland.

 

[marzNC]

Yes indeed. As a matter of fact, my BF's son in law is Japanese American and has skied since he was a kid. Both parents ski and they all grew up in the SF area. Very prominent family (SIL has JD from Northwestern and both parents (older than me) are college grads as well. There is a good size Japanese population in SF and many are quite affluent and many ski. The Tahoe resorts do have a diverse mix of skiers , but they most likely have resources to do so.
Also on trips to Europe and Canada, there are quite a few Asian/Asian American skiers. Whistler in particular and Wengen and Zermatt in Switzerland.

Do you have any sense that ski resorts have considered marketing with the Asian-American market as a specific target? For example, pictures used in ads or on websites could include Asian faces. Or perhaps actively looking to hire a few Asian-American instructors. There must be some.

For those who don't know me, I'm an American-born Chinese who grew up in NYC. I remember noticing the pictures in catalogs such as Sears designed to sell clothing. Back in the 1960s, the children were pretty much all white. As TV ads evolved, I noticed when non-whites started showing up. It took a long time before Asian faces appeared, even though there were plenty of upper middle class Asians in big cities with money to spend. The fact that the Powder article about diversity has no mention of Asians fits is not much of a surprise.

 

[Christy]

Along the lines of economics and where you live: All of our Indian friends here in Seattle have become hugely enthusiastic outdoors people, and many have become skiers. It corresponds to the idea that if you have the money/leisure time/proximity to slopes and you see others who do it (your neighbors, friends and co-workers) it's natural for you to try it. My husband's team at work started going night skiing regularly after work a couple winters ago and so the newer Indian guys went and took a lesson before that so they could join, and they got hooked. Now they have kids doing regular lessons and starting race team.

 

[newboots]

The fact that the Powder article about diversity has no mention of Asians fits is not much of a surprise.

I wonder why Asians have gone from enemies in need of segregation in WWII (Japanese-Americans) to the "model minority" in a couple of generations? I imagine the hard-working, high-achieving stereotype has something to do with it. It's still pretty amazing to me that Asian-Americans should be invisible in an article about diversity, though.

I agree with @bounceswoosh though, that diversity in social class is also an important question.

Have most ski resorts (what happened to "ski areas?") decided that the only way to market is to appeal to the upscale, condo-buying, truffle-butter crowd? No matter how much you market to that demographic, only a certain percentage of them are going to ski. It does seem wise to try to appeal to more people, of various backgrounds as well as various social and economic classes.

I drove by a recently-closed ski area Sunday, Maple Valley in Dummerston, VT. (https://www.maplevalleyski.com/ - Should we pitch in and buy it?) I heard that (nearby) Mt. Snow bought it then closed it down - unverified. Just the sort of place that looks like it could keep working- and middle-class skiers in the game.

 

[marzNC]

I agree with @bounceswoosh though, that diversity in social class is also an important question.

Have most ski resorts (what happened to "ski areas?") decided that the only way to market is to appeal to the upscale, condo-buying, truffle-butter crowd? No matter how much you market to that demographic, only a certain percentage of them are going to ski. It does seem wise to try to appeal to more people, of various backgrounds as well as various social and economic classes.

You won't find much mention of "ski areas" in Powder magazine. So the context of the article makes a difference too.

Wachusett is a good example of a local ski area that has figured out how to build a community of skiers/boarders by providing value and special programs for families, seniors, and women. There are quite a few school buses that show up in the afternoons full of kids ready for ski lessons or ski team activities. Even have a train from Boston so it's possible to get out there for a ski day without having to drive.

 

[bounceswoosh]

@marzNC - I know an Asian instructor at Breck. They exist =)

 

[santacruz skier]

Do you have any sense that ski resorts have considered marketing with the Asian-American market as a specific target? For example, pictures used in ads or on websites could include Asian faces.

I have to tell you - yes there are probably ads with Asian skiers but it isn't something I would bat an eye over. I grew up in SF and went to a very diversified high school. I am the person I am today because of this exposure. Everybody was not lily white. As far as socio-economic classes, it was all over the place. Many "whites" were very poor and Asians and African Americans were not necessarily a poor minority. At least not in my high school (or probably any within the limits of SF) . The Asian Americans had the nicest clothes and many shopped at I.Magnin (if anyone is old enough to remember). Some came from educated families with parents who were professionals and others came from immigrant families whose parents owned the grocery stores and dry cleaners. I'll tell you they were the smartest kids in the school!

So back to skiing, yes I have seen ads with Asian models/faces. It's not something I would even notice to be honest.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I have to tell you - yes there are probably ads with Asian skiers but it isn't something I would bat an eye over. I grew up in SF and went to a very diversified high school. I am the person I am today because of this exposure. Everybody was not lily white. As far as socio-economic classes, it was all over the place. Many "whites" were very poor and Asians and African Americans were not necessarily a poor minority. At least not in my high school (or probably any within the limits of SF) . The Asian Americans had the nicest clothes and many shopped at I.Magnin (if anyone is old enough to remember). Some came from educated families with parents who were professionals and others came from immigrant families whose parents owned the grocery stores and dry cleaners. I'll tell you they were the smartest kids in the school!

So back to skiing, yes I have seen ads with Asian models/faces. It's not something I would even notice to be honest.

But .. you're not Asian, are you? I realize you said you have an Asian person in the family, but that's not the same ...

 

[santacruz skier]

But .. you're not Asian, are you? I realize you said you have an Asian person in the family, but that's not the same ...

No I am not Asian. And I know it's not the same!

 

[bounceswoosh]

No I am not Asian. And I know it's not the same!

Got it! Thanks.

 

[santacruz skier]

Got it! Thanks.

Sorry I wasn't clear... Guess my point is I am used to seeing Asian Americans skiing.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Sorry I wasn't clear... Guess my point is I am used to seeing Asian Americans skiing.

*nod*

I wish I would see more different people skiing in Colorado. White on white ... for the most part.

 

[santacruz skier]

*nod*

I wish I would see more different people skiing in Colorado. White on white ... for the most part.

I know. I've skied all over Colorado.....Think Tahoe has a lot of diversity as the SF Bay Area is 4 -5 hours away.....But I've really noticed it in foreign countries skiing.

 

[Pequenita]

Do you have any sense that ski resorts have considered marketing with the Asian-American market as a specific target? For example, pictures used in ads or on websites could include Asian faces. Or perhaps actively looking to hire a few Asian-American instructors. There must be some.

I've seen ads at the ski areas closest to NYC and DC for Korean/Korean American day. Entirely by coincidence, I've had an Asian American ski instructor at Breck. And the two ski school instructors that joined Ingrid Backstrom and Jessica Sobolowski-Quinn as part of a clinic at Squaw were both Asian American. And seriously, at this point in time, I had only taken like 6 ski lessons, so I was batting a pretty high percentage of my instructors being APA.

 

[Pequenita]

I wonder why Asians have gone from enemies in need of segregation in WWII (Japanese-Americans) to the "model minority" in a couple of generations? I imagine the hard-working, high-achieving stereotype has something to do with it. It's still pretty amazing to me that Asian-Americans should be invisible in an article about diversity, though.

The Washington Post recently published a few things on this topic:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-asian-american-success-was-not-education/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-on-asian-americans-and-started-praising-them

And also this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...illains-how-did-they-become-a-model-minority/