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Determining lesson levels

jenniferm

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I write this as an observation and not with judgment....but, if you've ever posted at length here about a lesson or skill you've been working on/want to improve, or read about how to improve a skill (and get something out of it), you probably have strong Thinker learner tendencies. :becky:

I dont see how I could not be a Thinker, frankly, I am in every other aspect of my life, and I need to understand why I m doing an exercise in order to do the exercise. Maybe i'm a kinesthetically challenged Thinker :smile:. But in any case I need to work on feeling and watching as well as doing.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@marzNC Yes mostly men were instructors there were very few women, Classes were still a mix although I'd say more men than women

I grew up skiing w/my Dad He was early ski patroller and took me to many of the Ski patrol exams. I grew up mostly skiing w/him and other men and their sons. Having a local bump and high school ski team did lead to many good women skiers. Some of us raced on the boys teams (we helped create Title 9 since we beat the guys)

At my home Mt (Royal Mt) we are proud to have really good skiers that ski in control therefore look beautiful. Visitors all complement us on what good skiers we have from 18mo old to Seniors. We all say if you learn to ski all of Royal all day in control you can ski anywhere. We may be a small bump but our blacks start out groomed and blue and end up doulbe black by days end. We have woods trails from "princess trails/aka the ladies tee" to some pretty serious tight steep areas.

I guess I have always skied w/men. I tend to do top to bottom runs, I don't like to stop skiing, I hate standing around talking, even have a T-shirt that says Shut up and ski.. I want one that says "talk on the lift"

I still have my old teaching books and some really old ones of my Dad's I'll have to dig them out.

@Fluffy Kitty I too 'argue" with some instructors when I'm taking clinics. I usually do it on the lift- I have spoken up in class a few times and ended up getting cheered by the rest of the class they were all afraid to speak up!

for instance, I like to teach Fall line skiing from the get go.. PSIA likes that to be an upper level skill. I say not and I do teach in lay people's terms vs. PSIA wants us to talk about COM (center of mass) and other technological terms that most of my students don't care about, they just want to ski comfortably in control and have fun. If your instructor can't take your questions No question is a bad question and to contradict what some one says is not arguing to me.. I'd rather have some one asking questions than saying nothing and they are suffering trying to figure out a task. so Yes get another instructor. When you meet an instructor and they ask "what do you want to work on" tell them you like to ask questions about the how and why.

Why I think the styles of learning and finding a teacher that matches your learning style is soooo important..
 

Fluffy Kitty

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
When you meet an instructor and they ask "what do you want to work on" tell them you like to ask questions about the how and why.
That's a good advice. Thank you.

When I ask questions and argue, it's usually not because I object to what I'm being told. It's just that I need to rephrase what they are saying into my own words before I know I really understand them at all, and that, if I can't think of a counterargument, then I know I haven't been thorough enough. So, the more objections I raise, the more respect and interest I'm expressing. You can probably see that in some of the conversations I've had with instructors here, and of course I kinda' do that with everyone on every topic. I do come across as petulant at times, and some have considered me "unmentorable".

I could feel this about it: :bag: , but what I'm usually feeling is: :love: when the conversation goes well.
 

Olesya Chornoguz

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think I like having both...
That is why are taking a lesson, so that the instructor would both show and explain how to improve. If the "tell me" was enough we could become great skier by just reading ski technique books. :smile: What I was saying that I need both the "show me" and the "explain me". Some people don't want the explanation. That is what is what I was trying to say. And I agree with @Jenny I also need instructor to explain what I should be feeling as I am doing what they asked me to do and tell me the moment I am doing it right.
 

W8N2SKI

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
At Massanutten, one of the Level 3 instructors is kinesthetic. Very different from my coach, who tends to explain a lot more. But he can adjust to the learning style of the student as needed.

I love that PSIA description @marzNC . Thank you for posting it. I'm a feeler/doer on the slopes and a thinker in the "classroom." I oftentimes have difficulty understanding Walter's instruction b/c he's so technically oriented (but I love following him). I can go back to my books and figure out exactly what he was saying, but at the time, if I haven't heard it before, I'm sometimes lost. On the other hand I totally "get" Peter (whose instructor level I don't know). He could be speaking in sign language and I'd understand his point.

It goes back to your's and others' points - you just have to find an instructor w/whom you "click." Mary Killinger in Taos was like that for me too. She wanted me to move to a higher level group after the first day, but I stuck w/her b/c I loved her teaching style. I'm hoping to do a couple of privates or semi-privates w/her this year.
 

Mary Tee

Angel Diva
My standard answer to what would you like to work on is, "I'd like you to watch me ski and tell me what you think I need to work on to be an overall better skier." My feeling is, as a professional, they are a better judge of what I should be working on rather than what I would like to be working on...is this a stupid way to approach lessons? It seems to work fairly well for me, and have only had one instructor tell me "that's not how it works".
 

Skier31

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
If you know your learning style, it is very helpful to convey that to the instructor. I taught a woman last year. I met her and the first thing she told me was: I am a physical therapist. I love physics and I need a detailed technical explanation of what you want me to do. By her telling me that, we were able to maximize the 3 hour lesson and I did not have to be concerned about overloading her with technical issues.

Yes, good instructors can figure it out but it can take time and sometimes it is not readily apparent. Yes, good instructors use all methods, but if the instructor knows your style from the beginning, the instructor can tailor the lesson to you.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I love that PSIA description @marzNC . Thank you for posting it. I'm a feeler/doer on the slopes and a thinker in the "classroom." I oftentimes have difficulty understanding Walter's instruction b/c he's so technically oriented (but I love following him). I can go back to my books and figure out exactly what he was saying, but at the time, if I haven't heard it before, I'm sometimes lost. On the other hand I totally "get" Peter (whose instructor level I don't know). He could be speaking in sign language and I'd understand his point.

It goes back to your's and others' points - you just have to find an instructor w/whom you "click." Mary Killinger in Taos was like that for me too. She wanted me to move to a higher level group after the first day, but I stuck w/her b/c I loved her teaching style. I'm hoping to do a couple of privates or semi-privates w/her this year.
Not a surprise that Peter is such a good teacher, he's a PSIA Examiner. My impression is that he's been at that level for quite a while. The year I went to Timberline in early Jan, there were PSIA clinics in progress. Peter was one of the trainers. Pretty sure he was one of the Examiners for the exam that happened at Mnut last Feb.

The first season I worked with Walter, really wasn't sure what he was talking about most of the time. But in some cases, I didn't really figure out what I was missing until a season or two later. Meaning I thought I got the point, but I wasn't quite right. For me, working with more than one Level 3 instructor was helpful. They have different styles, but once I could see they were working toward the same outcome, everything started coming together.

Maybe we should do a semi-private or special group lesson with Julie. Very different teaching style than Walter. She did a Diva lesson during the demo weekend for a couple years. Might be able to arrange that again.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
My standard answer to what would you like to work on is, "I'd like you to watch me ski and tell me what you think I need to work on to be an overall better skier." My feeling is, as a professional, they are a better judge of what I should be working on rather than what I would like to be working on...is this a stupid way to approach lessons? It seems to work fairly well for me, and have only had one instructor tell me "that's not how it works".
Very odd for an instructor to not want to watch you to start with.

Every Level 3 instructor I've worked with since 2010 wanted to watch me the first run. If it were the very first time, would also ask questions on the first lift ride about goals, interests, and experience. Not only skiing experience, also lesson experience. For an instructor like Arthur who only gets to work with me once or twice a season, I assume he wants to watch me the first run to see if anything is different than before. During the second lift ride, that's when we discuss a plan for the rest of the lesson, taking into account my skiing and snow conditions.

Experienced instructors can do movement analysis very quickly.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That's a good advice. Thank you.

When I ask questions and argue, it's usually not because I object to what I'm being told. It's just that I need to rephrase what they are saying into my own words before I know I really understand them at all, and that, if I can't think of a counterargument, then I know I haven't been thorough enough. So, the more objections I raise, the more respect and interest I'm expressing. You can probably see that in some of the conversations I've had with instructors here, and of course I kinda' do that with everyone on every topic. I do come across as petulant at times, and some have considered me "unmentorable".

I could feel this about it: :bag: , but what I'm usually feeling is: :love: when the conversation goes well.

I get what you mean! and I've met you in my classes (not you but your style of learning) You need to meet a good seasoned instructor not offended by comments or requests to rephrase, restate or what ever..We're there to help it all make sense!!
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My standard answer to what would you like to work on is, "I'd like you to watch me ski and tell me what you think I need to work on to be an overall better skier." My feeling is, as a professional, they are a better judge of what I should be working on rather than what I would like to be working on...is this a stupid way to approach lessons? It seems to work fairly well for me, and have only had one instructor tell me "that's not how it works".

Well most of my students want to ski faster, more efficiently are afraid of certain situations. (bumps, trees, steeps) that's what I meant by letting your instructor know what you want to work on.

Perfectly fine to ask them to watch and fix but I'd say you need an instructor with good visual skiing movement analysis back ground. like all things some teach one way or the other.

I fortunately am very good at looking at some one skiing and can see things 'out of whack" sometimes just a comment like keep your hip over your boot. Don't drop your shoulder/head simple things can make a world of difference!

But there are some instructors that just don't have the experience I guess to be able to look at someone skiing and see the slight nuances and know what the physical aspects are to fix what's going wrong.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
Oh I think I need to ski in front of you and get some pointers!
Coming to Tahoe next season????
I fortunately am very good at looking at some one skiing and can see things 'out of whack" sometimes just a comment like keep your hip over your boot. Don't drop your shoulder/head simple things can make a world of difference!
 

Mary Tee

Angel Diva
Well most of my students want to ski faster, more efficiently are afraid of certain situations. (bumps, trees, steeps) that's what I meant by letting your instructor know what you want to work on.

Perfectly fine to ask them to watch and fix but I'd say you need an instructor with good visual skiing movement analysis back ground. like all things some teach one way or the other.

I fortunately am very good at looking at some one skiing and can see things 'out of whack" sometimes just a comment like keep your hip over your boot. Don't drop your shoulder/head simple things can make a world of difference!

But there are some instructors that just don't have the experience I guess to be able to look at someone skiing and see the slight nuances and know what the physical aspects are to fix what's going wrong.


I think I need to book a lesson with you this winter!!! I do want to become more comfortable on steeper terrain , and I guess when I say I just want to be a better skier, I think with one will come the other.
 

SkiBam

Angel Diva
There's one of the differences with CSIA. Our level 1 cert is beginner and mostly children teaching. The course is designed that way. And as nopoleskier states, the lower levels do not have the technical knowledge to teach at higher levels. Our level 3 is where a big separation begins. You have to look at physics, movement patterns, spatial recognition and body dynamics. Level 1 is about moving in motion, balance and safety.

I prefer adults too, as I do not have experience with children, none of my own. And I really like teaching women.

The way I understand it, in CSIA: level 1 prepares you to teach beginners, level 2 intermediates, level 3 advanced, and level 4 to train instructors. I, personally, have decided I will no longer each any children I'm not closely related to. Like @Jilly, I enjoy teaching women.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think I need to book a lesson with you this winter!!! I do want to become more comfortable on steeper terrain , and I guess when I say I just want to be a better skier, I think with one will come the other.

will you be at Diva west? I'll be there Sun-Wed I give free pointers :-) or I ski Okemo mid week. My home bump where I 'really' teach is Royal Mt. In Caroga Lake. it's a fun little Mt. in Caroga Lake close to Johnstown NY Long Island will be about 3hrs from me in Caroga!
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I would totally splurge on an Epic resort lift ticket if it meant I could ski with both of you (and to hear nopoleskier shout out the things I need to "slightly" adjust in my skiing to look pro)!
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
I would totally splurge on an Epic resort lift ticket if it meant I could ski with both of you (and to hear nopoleskier shout out the things I need to "slightly" adjust in my skiing to look pro)!
Think I need more than slight adjustments..... :smile::smile:
 

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