Bump Skis (Kinda Sorta)

[W8N2SKI]

Last season I got fed up with being a rotten bump skier and I've decided to devote a good bit of my 16/17 season to improving. I'm pretty well set up with a sense of humor and appreciation for the absurd, but I may be lacking skis.

My ultimate goal is simply to be a competent blue liner (in however many seasons it takes). I'm not even a good green liner yet, so there is much work to be done. I figure that a specialty bump ski would be wasted on me. Plus, I don't want to invest in something that will otherwise make me cringe getting to and from the bump runs. I'm not necessarily looking for one ski that will do it all (I've always had at least 2 in the locker), I just want something that won't hinder me and that might even help me as I stumble my way down the mountain.

I'm not a gear head and have never really made a study of what makes me favor one ski over another. I demo, and demo some more, and then buy. Consequently, beyond the basics of knowing I probably want something that will facilitate quick, agile turns, I'm ignorant.

I'll be starting my research and reading this week, but any and all suggestions, especially brands/models you all particularly like/recommend, would be much appreciated.

Thanx!!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Let's start with what you're already skiing, which I assume you're not thrilled with. What are you skiing? Or you have been renting?

 

[W8N2SKI]

Going from really old to old:

• Atomic C9 Puls, 160's
• Blizzard Viva Magnum 7.6, 153's

I can't say whether I'm thrilled or not. These may be ideal bump skis for all I know. If so, I can hang onto them and keep practicing. Buying something newer is definitely an option, however.

My issue is that I know virtually nada about mogul skiing and usually only ski bumps by accident. The upside is that accidents entitle me to an extra drink at the end of the day. Last year, however, I ended up in a group bump lesson (another accident). But darn if I didn't actually enjoy it a bit . . . And I do actually like skiing crud. Go figure.

 

[Skier31]

I am not familiar with your current skis. Based on what you have said, I suggest something softer and less edgy than what you might like for the groomers. I love my Kastle LX82s in the bumps - they are stiff enough to put on edge on the groomers but are flexy enough to not beat you up in the bumps. Many people use way too much edge in the bumps and that creates problems. Perhaps considers a few more lessons in the bumps and talk to your instructor about whether your current skis are appropriate or whether something else would be better. Something in the 80-85 width is appropriate for beginner bumps. Not sure what your skis are.

 

[bounceswoosh]

• Atomic C9 Puls, 160's
• Blizzard Viva Magnum 7.6, 153's

What's the waist on these two? (Or even all three dimensions) ... waist will typically be printed somewhere, either on the topsheet or along the edge. It will usually look like x-y-z where x is the tip width, y the waist, z the tail. Like (made up) 86-72-80.

I ask because I would guess that you do not want a wider ski in the bumps than the skis you currently have - even if they are a great ski in the bumps for someone else.

Another question - are you looking for a *bump* ski or for a new all-around ski that might be a bit more friendly in the bumps?

FWIW - I am a very experienced skier who still struggles in the bumps (my struggle may not look like your struggle, but by my standards I am still not where I want to be). I have not found that any ski is particularly great or terrible, and I suspect that's because the deficiencies in my technique overshadow anything in particular about the skis. Generally speaking, a decent all-around ski for the bumps will be a bit soft and a bit narrow.

 

[W8N2SKI]

Bounceswoosh, the Blizzards are a 76 waist. These are the skis I had w/me during last year's bump lesson. I originally bought them for eastern ice. By ski standards, the Atomics are older than dirt and I only skied them once last year. I'm saving them for my someday ski-Adirondack chair. I'm not looking for a specialized bump ski - just something that is friendly in the bumps that might help flatten my learning curve.

I demo'd the Head Total Joy several times last year (I think they were 83 under foot), but never had them in the moguls. It was a bit of jolt at first to look down and see a shovel that wide, but they skied great. I had them out in 8-10 inches of powder, in crud, in slush, and some groomed steeps, but nary a bump run.

 

[marzNC]

I demo'd the Head Total Joy several times last year (I think they were 83 under foot), but never had them in the moguls. It was a bit of jolt at first to look down and see a shovel that wide, but they skied great. I had them out in 8-10 inches of powder, in crud, in slush, and some groomed steeps, but nary a bump run.

I started learning how to ski bumps at Massanutten. Probably few people would expect that Mnut would have seeded bumps and several very experienced instructors. Usually takes until mid-Jan before there is enough snow for the bump line on the longest black trail from the top. The line is long enough for PSIA trainers to use it during instructor clinics in late Feb.

I demo'd the Total Joy and Absolut Joy at Mnut a couple seasons ago. Decided to buy the Absolut Joy in a relatively short length. They are 10cm shorter than my all-mountain Black Pearls. Had a good time on them last season.

Might take a look at my comments from the demo day at Whitetail last season. If I were going to ski in the northeast more often, I think I'd invest in the Stockli Laser SC. After one run I understood why my Massanutten coach likes his so much. He's a relatively small man over 60.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...jan-2016-demo-days-in-the-mid-atlantic.20602/

I also find that my BPs are fine on bumps and in trees now that my technique is at a solid advanced level. Took 2-3 years of work, skiing about 20 days out west and 25+ days in the Mid-Atlantic.

 

[W8N2SKI]

Thanx all for your comments so far. I've started looking around online and found the BFB site fairly informative, though this was a discussion on choosing length and didn't get into relative softness/stiffness.

"For Boomers we are seeing great results with all-mountain mid-fat skis that have 80mm-85mm in width underfoot in a 150cm – 160cm length for men and 146cm – 156cm for women." https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/2016/02/choosing-ski-length-final-thoughts-part-4-of-4/

 

[bounceswoosh]

Thanx all for your comments so far. I've started looking around online and found the BFB site fairly informative, though this was a discussion on choosing length and didn't get into relative softness/stiffness.

"For Boomers we are seeing great results with all-mountain mid-fat skis that have 80mm-85mm in width underfoot in a 150cm – 160cm length for men and 146cm – 156cm for women." https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/2016/02/choosing-ski-length-final-thoughts-part-4-of-4/

To what degree is price a consideration? Are you looking new or used, or with a budget in mind (with bindings/without bindings?)?

 

[santacruz skier]

"For Boomers we are seeing great results with all-mountain mid-fat skis that have 80mm-85mm in width underfoot in a 150cm – 160cm length for men and 146cm – 156cm for women."

Hmm. That is interesting. I mean the lengths mentioned would be good for me as 1) I'm an aging baby boomer 2) I'm only 5'1 and about 102 or so. I don't think that would apply to a woman (baby boomer or not) who is quite a bit taller.

 

[W8N2SKI]

To what degree is price a consideration? Are you looking new or used, or with a budget in mind (with bindings/without bindings?)?

Is this my cue to say, "money is no object" ? Seriously, if I identify something that sounds amazing, I won't mind paying good money. I don't have a budget per se, and have found in the past that good equipment is usually worth the price. That said, I'd not object to buying last year's output or getting something used from a reliable source. If I end up going for new I'll probably try to demo once the season gets up and running.

Oh, re bindings - if the ski comes as a package as so many do these days I'd probably go that route. I don't have any special needs re bindings.

 

[marzNC]

Thanx all for your comments so far. I've started looking around online and found the BFB site fairly informative, though this was a discussion on choosing length and didn't get into relative softness/stiffness.

"For Boomers we are seeing great results with all-mountain mid-fat skis that have 80mm-85mm in width underfoot in a 150cm – 160cm length for men and 146cm – 156cm for women." https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/2016/02/choosing-ski-length-final-thoughts-part-4-of-4/

Need to keep in mind the target audience for Bumps for Boomers. Here's what they say on the Introduction page:

https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/mog...l-skiing-technique-introduction/new-approach/

"The New Approach to make mogul skiing easy that you are about to learn is optimized for the unique needs of Baby Boomer and other conservative recreational skiers."

"If you are a young 20 or 30 year old hot dog with lightening-fast reflexes who is interested in skiing the zipper line, skiing fast or getting air then this web site will not give you the mogul technique guidance that you are looking for.

This is a sane and intelligent approach to mogul skiing for those who no longer possess strong athleticism and lightening fast reflexes and want to minimize the likelihood of ending up in physical therapy."

As I read through the material, it was pretty much what I learned from my Massanutten coach and the other Level 3 instructors at Alta and JH. As I understand it, Bumps for Boomers is probably most looking for boomers who take a trip or two out west each season to a high end ski resort (like Aspen or Vail) and don't ski much more than that. They are the people who never really expected to ski bumps, but are willing to give it a try since current skis make it a lot easier than on the straight skis they may have learned on way back when. The clinic starts with skiboards that are 95cm.

Bumps for Boomers has a good video serious for ski conditioning.

 

[santacruz skier]

95 cm? Okay maybe not for experienced skiers then? Different target audience.. Well a good idea I guess.

 

[Jilly]

I had the C9's years ago. So I'm familiar with that ski. I would like to suggest you demo some skis this season. You don't need mogul specifics that's for sure. But look for a good east coast ski with around 75mm waist. SkiBam is shorter than you and loves her junior races slaloms. So don't forget about a junior race ski either.

 

[marzNC]

95 cm? Okay maybe not for experienced skiers then? Different target audience.. Well a good idea I guess.

My impression is that many of the folks who take the Boomer bump clinic are intermediates who have stuck to groomers during 1-week ski vacations. So they aren't quite sure bumps are possible but want to try in order to expand the terrain possibilities. Or they are retired skiers who used to ski bumps on long straight skis, but didn't ski much while working as ski designs changed. The idea behind the short skiboards is to really work on balance. The latter half of the session are on regular skis that are relatively short.

 

[santacruz skier]

okay thanks! Possibly could use bumps lesson but not boomer bumps lesson!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Need to keep in mind the target audience for Bumps for Boomers.

Even so, lengths suggested by gender without considering height or weight is

A ski that I found fun, playful, soft, and not too wide (by my standards - it's 89mm) is the Scott The Ski. In fact, my first few days coming back from the knee injury, I plan to use them - they're more forgiving than what I usually ski. That being said, I've skied them in some pretty gnarly terrain, and they did well. Versatile.

Although .. now that I think about it, if @W8N2SKI skis mostly in the mid-Atlantic, my advice is pretty useless. Those bumps don't really look or act like the bumps in Colorado.

Price comes into play for the Stocklis and Kaestles mentioned - these are known to be expensive, but very high quality, skis.

Not all skis come with bindings, so just be aware of what the price tag includes.

 

[W8N2SKI]

Even so, lengths suggested by gender without considering height or weight is

The BFB site isn't quite so limiting. That quote is only a snippet of a larger discussion. Still, they do seem to downplay height and weight as significant determining factors in the decision:

In the second of this four part discussion we propose the five major decision factors that you should consider when making your ski length decision.​

The traditional way of determining the appropriate length of your skis has always been an approximate judgment based mostly upon the skier’s height and weight. As ski technology has changed over the years the ski length answer has changed. In yesteryear when skis were straight the desired length was up to the wrist of an extended arm. With shaped skis and new construction materials proper” ski length is still considered to be based upon height and weight but the equation has changed and the “new” answer is judged to be somewhere between the chin and the top of the head.

We would like to offer an alternative perspective on how to choose ski length. It is not an approach as simplistic as height and weight but rather an approach based upon the uniqueness of the following five attributes of the skier:

Age: the age of the skier is a relevant factor because older skiers generally have a different level of strength, durability and reflex speed than younger skiers.

Skiing Style: the skier’s style of skiing is also a relevant factor. What is your preferred style of skiing? Do you seek and enjoy the thrill of speed or do you prefer slower skiing with an emphasis on balance and speed control? Would you describe yourself as an aggressive or a conservative skier? Do you have a high or low level of anxiety when skiing? Are you a risk taker or is your goal to avoid potential injury at all cost?

Terrain Preference: a skier’s terrain preference is also an important factor in choosing ski length. What terrain do you currently ski and what terrain would you like to ski (groomed runs, moguls, powder or gates in a race course)? Is your goal to ski groomers, off-piste or some combination of the two. Do you want to ski easy or moderate runs or is steep and deep your thing? Will you be skiing in-bounds at a ski area or out-of-bounds in the back country?

Fitness Level: Are you young, athletic, strong, durable and have fast reflexes? Or are you older, not in as good as shape as you used to be, fatigue sooner that you used to and have noticed that your reflexes are slowing? How well do you adjust to high altitude? Have you have had any orthopedic injuries (e.g. knee surgery or knee replacement or hip replacement or any other broken bones). Do you have any medical condition that may impact durability or fatigue and/or any other disability (either physical or cognitive)?

Frequency Of Skiing: How often you ski is another important variable. How many days do you ski each year? And, do you ski for a full or half-day? Do you live in a mountain town and ski 100+ days a year or do you live in a big city and consider it fortunate if you can find time to ski 7 – 10 days a season?​

 

[W8N2SKI]

And Part 3 of 4 in the article:

This section of the choosing ski length discussion is not about proposing a “one size fits all” approach to choosing ski length. It is specific to our audience. Given our target demographics (Baby Boomer and older skiers) and their skiing goal (moguls and powder inside a ski area boundary) the following ski length selection guidelines apply:

How you choose the length of your ski should be based primarily upon your age, skiing style, terrain preference, fitness level and how frequently you ski.

• The older you are the shorter your skis should be. Not because you are older but because there is a correlation between age and a general decline in strength, fitness level, durability and reflex speed.
• If you are more interested in balance and speed control than you are in speed you want to consider a shorter ski. If you prefer to ski slower, select a shorter ski with a smaller turning radius. If you prefer to ski fast, select a longer ski with a larger turning radius.
• The more conservative (less aggressive) you are the shorter your skis should be
• The higher your level of anxiety the shorter your skis should be
• If your terrain preference is moguls (versus groomed runs) the shorter you skis should be.
• The fewer number of days you ski per year the shorter your skis should be

Note: don’t base your ski length decision entirely on ski length. The turning radius of a ski is equally as important as ski length. Longer skis usually have a larger turning radius and shorter skis usually have a smaller turning radius. But two skis of equal length can each have a different turn radius. The words “the shorter your skis should be” can be substituted with the words “the smaller your turn radius should be”

So what is short or shorter when it comes to skis? Several years of experience has shown us that when our mogul and powder clinic participants ski on shorter skis (150cm – 160cm for men and 146cm – 156cm for women) – irrespective of their height and weight – that they have substantially better results (better balance, better speed control, less fatigue, more confidence, lower anxiety, and ability to ski more challenging off-piste terrain). And, with no apparent downside for stability from the shorter ski length.

The bottom line: There is no simple formula to give you a precise answer for choosing the right ski length. Rather, it is a judgement call given the above rules-of-thumb.​

 

[W8N2SKI]

Using the above:

• I'll be 57 in September, but for my age, I am still near the top of my game athletically. I've never experienced a serious injury (knock on a sequoia).
• I am no longer interested in speed (my mantra). I want to refine my skills and focus on technique. I love reading about technique, love geeky technique-centric lessons, and love watching and following really good skiers.
• I still have strong competitive tendencies. Its in the DNA. A slower/shorter ski will help to suppress my inner 22-year-old brain (mantra, mantra, mantra).
• I have a very low level of anxiety (see above at mantra).
• Terrain preference is all over the place. I pretty much like everything but bumps. My goal is get over this bump intimidation thing. I think I'll enjoy them if I can ski them properly. Not fast, not beautiful, just correct.
• Last year in a craptastic season I got in 32 days and my first day wasn't until the second week of January. I do need to lengthen my ski day, however. There were a few days in there when I only skied 3-4 hours (granted, it was either pouring rain, 60 degrees, or both).