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Boot observations

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't really have a question or a point; just kind of wanted to put my thoughts in order, and maybe some of you may find it interesting.

Going into this weekend, I pretty much had my downhill boots dialed in. But last weekend, I spent a lot of time in my AT boots, and I finally decided I was done with them - I have had them for several years, and they've never quite been right for me. They end up compressing my forefoot and causing all sorts of pain. So I got a new AT boot, the Scarpa Gea. I was amazed to realize how much my heel was lifting in the old AT boot when I compared it to the Gea, which held me tightly. I was between sizes and went with the smaller size, so I had the new-to-me experience of the toe box being a smidge too short. I've apparently been to this particular rodeo often enough that instead of insisting that I ski at least a day before they punched out the "sixth toe" area, the fitter suggested we just go ahead and punch them out right away so that when the liners are molded, they will mold into that area. Yeah! After the molding, my toes were still touching the front of the boot, so they punched out the front of the toe box as well, after which only my big toes felt like they were touching (barely). Fitter suggested I ski with them a bit because the heel will pack out and probably give me the room I need.

I skied in my AT boots Saturday at A Basin. I wanted to identify any problems while I was at a resort and could easily bail. Now, it was *cold* in the morning, and somehow my feet got cold just driving, so that even after putting my already-toasty handwarmers on my feet for a while, my feet and boots were still pretty chilly. I skied a few runs, then went in to warm up because my feet were blocks of ice. A few more runs, then lunch. And a few more runs ... I expected my AT boots to be uncomfortable the first day, and I expected my AT setup to feel squirrelly, especially on groomers, where the gap between boot and ski is more noticeable. My toes got cold, brutally cold and numb, and that may be because the liner still needs to break in a little. But my "sixth toe" bump, which is usually red after skiing, was just fine, and the real shocker - my skiing felt bomber. I had excellent control. I'm starting to think that the flakiness I'd attributed to my AT bindings was actually due to my AT boots not fitting very well. Over the course of the day, my boots seemed pretty comfortable except for the cold - but because we were getting opportunities to do directed skiing, I stood still in the cold a lot, which is not something I'd usually do. And it seemed that switching to walk mode alleviated some of the cold. So it may be a combination of a pressure point and just plain standing around in cold, plus that whole "the liner hasn't really settled in yet" thing. It'll be interesting to see. Also, the friend I was skiing with said her feet were cold, and that they never get cold.

I still felt like my toes were touching the front of the AT boots just a little too closely - it was fine for skiing, but I could imagine it being problematic while hiking or skinning. But I'm going to reserve judgement.

Sunday, I switched to my downhill boots to give my feet a break. And I freaked out at how much *room* I had in the boot. Like, not in a good way. It felt like there was entirely too much space around my foot, not just the toe box but also on the sides of the heel. I think this was mostly psychological, because when I angle my foot my lower leg goes along for the ride, so my ski tips even if I feel like I have slop in the boot - but it still took me a couple of runs to get used to it. I also was locking down my lower boot more than I normally do, and possibly because of that, the outside of my foot was cramping just a little bit. My bumps were definitely red. ALSO - I noticed that my toes are pretty close to the front of my boot in these, as well. I can feel the front of the boot if I'm not skiing. And that's never been a problem clomping around.

I'm really curious to see where this goes - if after a couple of days, the Geas are perfect, or if I continue to have cold issues with them, or toe bang, or something new that I didn't notice because my toes were numb. If my Tecnicas continue to feel loose, or if that was just in comparison to a brand new liner. If something new pops up. In fact - the liner I have in the Tecnicas is an Intuition that I transferred from my old boots, and I probably have 90 days in them, and they've been molded twice. If the Tecnicas, which I just got last season, continue to feel loose, I may get a new Intuition liner (the stock liner made my feet freeze, seemingly some pressure point, but we were never able to figure out what was being pressured).

Sometimes it seems like boots are their own living beings, and that they're a completely different experience every day I ski in them. And sometimes it seems like I spend tens of days dialing them in, and then when I finally have them dialed, I get like 5-10 days before they fall into a downward spiral. And then other days they "just work" and I forget to worry about them. :noidea:
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Sometimes it seems like boots are their own living beings, and that they're a completely different experience every day I ski in them. And sometimes it seems like I spend tens of days dialing them in, and then when I finally have them dialed, I get like 5-10 days before they fall into a downward spiral. And then other days they "just work" and I forget to worry about them. :noidea:

Now those might be the truest words I have ever heard spoken in "boot world." Yet, I hear there are women who just put their boots on and go ... and they work all season. It drives me crazy. My morning prayer is: please, Lord, let my boots fit today.
 

snow addict

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I hear you about ski boots giving you different experience every day - they do fit and ski little bit differently according to the weather. When we get the first warm spring skiing day my boots/feet change to the point that it feels as if I got on someone else's boots by mistake. Luckily it doesn't prevail, maybe half a day or a day of adjustments. Or a day of touring to take a break from the gear :smile: You can try skinning next time you go to ski if your resort allows the uphill traffic - that should make your feet a bit warmer too, plus you will be able to identify potential issues to avoid having them on tour. I did hear that AT boots could be a bit colder but I have Intuitions in mine, plus I won't ski in them unless I also skin, so don't have any personal experience to support it.
As for the fit, it could be just old vs. new effect, I would give it some time, also touring and alpine gear won't have absolutely the same feel. Boots/bindings interface, boots shape, bindings themselves - they are different and will result in a slightly different experience. Also, you just started the season after a summer break, so many things might feel a little bit off but totally normal in a month time - even without any changes.
 
I hear ya. I wish I were one of those gals that could just put on her ski boots and go. Every day is a fingers crossed hope today is a good one process. I feel like boots, at least for me, are a creature all of their own. Keep us posted on how things go.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I hear you about ski boots giving you different experience every day - they do fit and ski little bit differently according to the weather. When we get the first warm spring skiing day my boots/feet change to the point that it feels as if I got on someone else's boots by mistake. Luckily it doesn't prevail, maybe half a day or a day of adjustments. Or a day of touring to take a break from the gear :smile: You can try skinning next time you go to ski if your resort allows the uphill traffic - that should make your feet a bit warmer too, plus you will be able to identify potential issues to avoid having them on tour. I did hear that AT boots could be a bit colder but I have Intuitions in mine, plus I won't ski in them unless I also skin, so don't have any personal experience to support it.
As for the fit, it could be just old vs. new effect, I would give it some time, also touring and alpine gear won't have absolutely the same feel. Boots/bindings interface, boots shape, bindings themselves - they are different and will result in a slightly different experience. Also, you just started the season after a summer break, so many things might feel a little bit off but totally normal in a month time - even without any changes.

Spring days totally mess with my boot fit - the edges of my feet always hurt! I don't know why, but it sucks. I wonder if it has to do with me skiing differently to make up for a softer flex in the warmth.

These boots have Intuitions as well, but different than my ultrawarm Intuitions in my downhill boots. My usual haunts have uphill access before and after the lifts run, but I'm too lazy to get up that early and too cold to go out after the sun goes down. BUT A Basin does have uphill access during the day, so that's something to consider. Saturday and Sunday were days 5 and 6, so not exactly *just* starting the season from summer - and I got in a ski day every month during the summer - but yes, these were the first days of "real" skiing with terrain open, bumps, powder, some trees, etc - and consequently interesting enough to ski all day.

Anyway, I am definitely not freaking out - it's just interesting and weird.
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
LL
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Not necessarily ... mostly the point is, When Intuitions fall off, they fall off FAST. The same thing happened to me, and it didn't take 200 days.

And I'm sure molding it twice (once for Dalbello, once for Tecnica) didn't help my longevity. But I'm not actually sure if it's more spacious all of a sudden, or that I just noticed a non-prolematic difference with the new boot - or maybe it really is too packed out, and I didn't notice until I had something to compare it to.

On the other hand, my toes are nice and toasty in the Dalbellos with the older liners, while my feet got cold and numb with Scarpas. So it could be that being reassuringly tight -> feet too cold for me. I'll reserve judgment until I've skied them both a few more times. DH has said he's fine with me getting new liners if I really think I need them, but it's enough of a pain to get them that I'll hold off till I'm really sure.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I've had 3 sets of Intuitions and I think I probably get 10 snug days out of them before they start to pack out.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Like, @Christy , after 10 days my intuition liners pack in and then I have to get the boot fitter padding, etc. Remolding of intuitions does increase their tendency to pack out so that could be the issue. I am finding that intuition liners do not have the life span I expected they would. I still love them for warmth and comfort however.
 
I have never had after market liners but I have to say I am discouraged from using the Intuition ones. I like to get more use out of things. Maybe I'll try zip fits one day, haven't heard of similar things happening with those.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have never had after market liners but I have to say I am discouraged from using the Intuition ones. I like to get more use out of things. Maybe I'll try zip fits one day, haven't heard of similar things happening with those.
Zipfits don't pack. They are not made of foam around the ankle/heel/tongue. They are made of a cork/clay material that remolds when warm, then cools and "sets" into a crazy awesome heel hold. I think they are a brilliant product but wish their marketing, so to speak, and customer service, were better.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have never had after market liners but I have to say I am discouraged from using the Intuition ones. I like to get more use out of things. Maybe I'll try zip fits one day, haven't heard of similar things happening with those.

I would love it if they lasted forever, but it doesn't matter how long my liners last if my feet are iceblocks. I've never skied in anything half as warm as an Intuition.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
The sales guy that sold me me last pair of boots told me he wouldn't let me buy anything that didn't have intuitions since I have Raynauds. It sounds like they really do provide warmth and that other liners don't.

I wish I could try as zipfits but I've read enough things about people having trouble with the forward lean. I've heard they can be adjusted some but I need to be so dang upright. Even a smidge too much forward lean means bad quad pain. I wish I could demo them.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The sales guy that sold me me last pair of boots told me he wouldn't let me buy anything that didn't have intuitions since I have Raynauds. It sounds like they really do provide warmth and that other liners don't.

I wish I could try as zipfits but I've read enough things about people having trouble with the forward lean. I've heard they can be adjusted some but I need to be so dang upright. Even a smidge too much forward lean means bad quad pain. I wish I could demo them.

You could put them in boots at a shop to see how they feel. If the bootfitter is any good, he or she will be able to measure your stance angles with and without them. I have no issues with them whatsoever. What size are you again? I am probably going to be buying a new pair shortly as the tongues on mine are shot thanks to me abusing them (don't ask.) One thing that my fitter has said is the women's liner (the Diva) is really too short. He wants to order me the Gran Prix next as it is taller--if we can get it in a 22.5. Supposedly we can, but there's that whole customer service/marketing issue again.
 

snow addict

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The sales guy that sold me me last pair of boots told me he wouldn't let me buy anything that didn't have intuitions since I have Raynauds. It sounds like they really do provide warmth and that other liners don't.

I wish I could try as zipfits but I've read enough things about people having trouble with the forward lean. I've heard they can be adjusted some but I need to be so dang upright. Even a smidge too much forward lean means bad quad pain. I wish I could demo them.

To be honest here is the first place I heard Zipfits affect the stance in any sort of way, but you need to have them fitted in the shop by a fitter. It's also important that they match the true size of your feet rather than the mondo size of your boots or they might be too small and since they are not going to pack out and are not made out of soft and fluffy material you will have troubles skiing in them. They add some stiffness to a boot too. As for providing warmth they are not as good as Intuitions. I am considering getting my next boots wired for warmth during extra cold days as I am sold on Zipfits and will definitely get them with new boots too.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
After skiing four days this weekend - three in my downhill boots, one (really just two hours) in my new AT boots - I hit up the fitters again. Told my guy (he actually started out trying to introduce me to another employee, but after I started explaining what was going on, he said, "You know what? Monique and I have a history. I'll work with her - you go help these other people") how sloppy my downhill boots feel. I was there for about 45 minutes in which he initially raised the footbed along its entire length, then did some other stuff, ultimately resulting in a tighter fit all around and no more feeling of a slight delay between my feet tilting and my boots following with them. The boots are having a sleepover at the shop to get more sixth toe punching done, too - they were already causing pressure, and then lifting the footbed added to it. He said that Intuitions do pack out, but eventually they should stop packing out and just be done - so he'd rather fix the fit issue than put me in a new liner and have me come back next year with the same issues. (Honestly, next year? That's not too bad. But I guess not spending money is even better.)

I also brought in the AT boots so they could replace the stock straps with Booster straps - I just don't love those velcro deals after having gotten used to the Boosters. Afterwards, the owner asked me to flex and was very happy with the results. There was some back and forth about whether I should actually get the toe punched out again, but we decided in favor, so that's getting done, too.

The saga continues. This is the song that never ends ...
 

mustski

Angel Diva
^^^ Hoping the shims under the footbed work for you. They didn't for me because my skinny part (sigh!) is the heel and achilles area. I'll be hitting up the boot fitter in February when I am in Mammoth. In the meantime, I'm learning to ski with loose boots.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
^^^ Hoping the shims under the footbed work for you. They didn't for me because my skinny part (sigh!) is the heel and achilles area. I'll be hitting up the boot fitter in February when I am in Mammoth. In the meantime, I'm learning to ski with loose boots.

He did a bunch of things, not just that - he tightened up the heel and up the sides of the ankle, too. Overall it felt much more confidence inspiring.
 

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