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Boot flex/construction question, for instructors and gear people

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hey instructor ladies ( @Skier31 @KatyPerrey @klar @Jilly and everyone else) and gear people ,

So for years now, I've been working, mostly unsuccessfully, at bending at the ankle rather than the hip. As you well know, open ankles create some pretty static, moderately backseat skiing. Frustrating.

Instructor Dirk (I can hear @Xinga now saying "Diiiirk" in a mock-swoon because I talk about him so much) took a look at my boots today. He's been watching me ski for several years now. I have Dalbello Krypton Storms from 4 or maybe 5 years ago - white and blue. He was wondering if maybe my boots were too difficult to flex. They are very upright (I have always thought of that as a feature because I don't get sore standing around), and he pointed out that the way it's built, I have to flex against the tongue rather than simply working the hinge the way a "normal" boot works. But I thought this three-piece design was supposed to be easier to flex ... maybe not, maybe just easier to get into?

I've been thinking of getting new boots soon anyway, primarily avoiding because these are so comfortable and I'd hate to give that up for an unknown. I asked Larry's in Boulder - he remembered when I got my boots, said it was when they were in their old location, and said that I should probably be getting new boots by next season. On the other hand, he said he has plenty of inventory right now. I'm a 25.5 so not a terribly common women's boot size.

Now, after lunch, I *worked* on flexing and made progress. I went from forcing the flex to, for a run, really feeling in my body that I didn't need to force the flex because my body being forward created the flex naturally. Then I lost that feeling. But I'm sure I'll get it back. I'm also not sure if I was creating plenty of flex, or just a lot more flex than Dirk had ever seen me create (that part he explicitly stated).

So, some questions. Do you think that Dirk's concerns about the boot not being easy to flex might be valid? Do you think it could be stiffening up (although I've never been flexing my ankles, even when these were new)? Does my ability to create the flexion prove that it's not the boot, or is there an in between where you *can* create it, but it's more work than it should be? Also, it was pretty warm today, and it could be a lot harder tomorrow when the high is 15 instead of 30 ...
 

Skier31

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I do not know the answer to your question. Chuck at Racer's Edge in Breck is a great boot fitter and may be able to answer your questions. I will ask Bags. He is the super technical biomechanic guy and knows much more about this than I do.
 

SaraJ

Certified Ski Diva
In my experience, after a couple of seasons the plastic of the boots start to lose its elasticity. To me, once this starts to happen the boots don't feel stiff as such but feel hard when I flex them instead of feeling springy (difficult to explain a feeling). I am still able to flex the boots but it doesn't feel comfortable -normally I bend my ankles without thinking, once I become aware of the feeling when I do then it's time for new boots.
Possibly, if your boots are 4 or 5 years old then this has started to happen. If I were you I'd take them with you and go and have a chat with a good bootfitter.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In my experience, after a couple of seasons the plastic of the boots start to lose its elasticity.
Yeah, Dirk was saying new boots would feel like driving a new car - smooth.
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hey instructor ladies ( @Skier31 @KatyPerrey @klar @Jilly and everyone else) and gear people ,

So for years now, I've been working, mostly unsuccessfully, at bending at the ankle rather than the hip. As you well know, open ankles create some pretty static, moderately backseat skiing. Frustrating.

Instructor Dirk (I can hear @Xinga now saying "Diiiirk" in a mock-swoon because I talk about him so much) took a look at my boots today. He's been watching me ski for several years now. I have Dalbello Krypton Storms from 4 or maybe 5 years ago - white and blue. He was wondering if maybe my boots were too difficult to flex. They are very upright (I have always thought of that as a feature because I don't get sore standing around), and he pointed out that the way it's built, I have to flex against the tongue rather than simply working the hinge the way a "normal" boot works. But I thought this three-piece design was supposed to be easier to flex ... maybe not, maybe just easier to get into?

I've been thinking of getting new boots soon anyway, primarily avoiding because these are so comfortable and I'd hate to give that up for an unknown. I asked Larry's in Boulder - he remembered when I got my boots, said it was when they were in their old location, and said that I should probably be getting new boots by next season. On the other hand, he said he has plenty of inventory right now. I'm a 25.5 so not a terribly common women's boot size.

Now, after lunch, I *worked* on flexing and made progress. I went from forcing the flex to, for a run, really feeling in my body that I didn't need to force the flex because my body being forward created the flex naturally. Then I lost that feeling. But I'm sure I'll get it back. I'm also not sure if I was creating plenty of flex, or just a lot more flex than Dirk had ever seen me create (that part he explicitly stated).

So, some questions. Do you think that Dirk's concerns about the boot not being easy to flex might be valid? Do you think it could be stiffening up (although I've never been flexing my ankles, even when these were new)? Does my ability to create the flexion prove that it's not the boot, or is there an in between where you *can* create it, but it's more work than it should be? Also, it was pretty warm today, and it could be a lot harder tomorrow when the high is 15 instead of 30 ...
I skied in a Krypton Kryzma for several years and really liked it. When I started to ski instruct I moved to a more traditional boot design because I was finding the Kryzma to be a little less responsive than I wanted for my teaching exam.

To answer your question, the design of the Krypton series is great for free riders and bump skiers because of the lateral stiffness and three piece design, but for most skiers like us, a traditional boot will be more responsive. Larry does a great job and will find you the right boot. I haven't looked at your foot so I'm not sure what direction you should go but I know you'll get more of the ankle flexion you are looking for in a different style.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I skied in a Krypton Kryzma for several years and really liked it. When I started to ski instruct I moved to a more traditional boot design because I was finding the Kryzma to be a little less responsive than I wanted for my teaching exam.

To answer your question, the design of the Krypton series is great for free riders and bump skiers because of the lateral stiffness and three piece design, but for most skiers like us, a traditional boot will be more responsive. Larry does a great job and will find you the right boot. I haven't looked at your foot so I'm not sure what direction you should go but I know you'll get more of the ankle flexion you are looking for in a different style.

Thanks! Confused, though - bump skiers and free skiers do still need flexion ...
 

chickadee30

Diva in Training
Cant say as I have a good answer but I will say this, don't hold off on new boots for fear of the unknown. I did this for years my self even though I knew better. I didn't want to give up my super comfy boots. But I went to a trusted bootfitter tried boots on and much to my amazement I went home with the last boot I ever expected to buy, A Lange. My point is keep an open mind and try new boots. Also get custom footbeds if you don't have them. I was aastounded at the positive changes it made in my sking.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Sounds like a good plan. I'll be on that course next fall.....boots....not looking forward to it, but with Barry's (Ski Connexions) help, I'll have the right boot right away.
 

Xinga

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@bounceswoosh : for the record, I don't recall ever making fun of you for appreciating the tutelage of Dirk, I believe you are thinking of your DH! I myself have my own deep gratitude for connecting with a ski pro to learn from, whom I'm sure I talk about too much too!
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@bounceswoosh : for the record, I don't recall ever making fun of you for appreciating the tutelage of Dirk, I believe you are thinking of your DH! I myself have my own deep gratitude for connecting with a ski pro to learn from, whom I'm sure I talk about too much too!

I swear I remember you saying ... things. Gently mocking things. Crazy things like, "Maybe it would be good for you to occasionally ski with a different instructor"!
 

Xinga

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I admit to that one! But I also said "so that you can appreciate Dirk even more" did I not? It wasn't meant to be mocking!
 

jellyflake

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Waaah, THAT is interesting...

I have tried Krypton Pros a few years back and - it was a TERRIBLE experience. I had the feeling I could not bend/use my ankles at all. Although I could move them when standing still, but not when skiing. I thought it was all up to myself and me being used to my standard four-buckles-boots.

So - just from my personal experience - I think that for some reason that I cannot really explain the three-buckles-tongue-construction is (for some people only?) not good for ankle-work.

Eh, not sure whether this helps, but at least I hope this encourages you for the new boots :smile:

BTW - if anyone is interested in the Kryptons (it is 25/ 25.5) let me know. I give them away cheap and they have not been skied often (shells three times a half day, the inner boot only once for two hours).
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Waaah, THAT is interesting...

I have tried Krypton Pros a few years back and - it was a TERRIBLE experience. I had the feeling I could not bend/use my ankles at all. Although I could move them when standing still, but not when skiing. I thought it was all up to myself and me being used to my standard four-buckles-boots.

That *is* interesting. And a bummer, because I love the three buckle thing for how it doesn't squeeze my calf.

But on the other hand, @Xinga just got Dalbellos and I haven't heard her saying anything about problems flexing.
 

Kimmyt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Can I jump in with some questions I'd like some input on? Mostly because I'm pretty clueless about technicall stuff, I tend to just ski by feel so I'm not sure if what I'm experiencing with my new boots is normal or requires adjustment.

I recently upgraded to a stiffer boot, it's definitely time, I've had the old boots for several years and they were busted up and I'm way too advanced for them now. So I've now got 2 days in my new boots. I definitely have some stuff that needs tweaking, mostly tightness in the calf that is reducing circulation to the foot and I will have that adressed by my fitter shortly. The issue I'm concerned about is the stiffness. I skied them yesterday and felt a bit like I was having issues flexing them. Of course, it was my second day on them and I haven't skied in a while due to my pregnancy last winter. So my ski muscles are pretty weak right now. And the snow was fresh and deeper than I usually ski this early in the season, so the more challenging conditions also may have contributed to my difficulty, but I just felt like I was getting thrown around because I wasn't flexing them well enough. When I paid enough attention to it I could definitely flex them, it just wasn't as 'easy'.

So my super newby question is- is this normal when going to a boot of increasing stiffness? Is it like when I moved up to a more advanced set of skis and it took me a few days to get used to them and build up the appropriate muscles to ski them? Or is this something I should talk to the fitter about (which I probably will anyway?).

My feelings are that the tightness and circulation issues I was having were actually impeding my ability to flex the boot and that once I get the fit better adjusted I won't have that issue, and also that my weak legs weren't helping and after a few more days in the boots I will get back into a better skiing shape, but I just thought I'd ask what others think on here.

Thanks!
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
All of the above. Your first couple of days out should be just about sliding around. But if it hurts or aka hot spots, something needs to be done. Talk to your fitter about the calf issue because it could be creating the rest.
 

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I personally did not care for the tongue flexing aspect of the Dalbello. I never upgraded to the intuition liners and the hard tongue of the stock liners was painful and didn't perform well in terms of creating stiffness - hardness against the shinbone but no support. I would get sore spots where the edge of the tongue was. DD had the same boots as you and hers were upgraded to the intuitions but we quickly found they were way too soft for her without the hard plastic on the tongue and her shell had to be modified which ended up being a joke to say the least. We both now ski in traditional boots and are much happier. We both have good ankle flexion though so maybe they work better or are more forgiving for those who don't.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Sigh. The foot and calf fit is perfect. I have wrap-around intuition liners. I was not knowledgeable enough when I got these to have any idea about what was working or not - the better fit def gave me better control over skis, I remember that. But it's not like I probably had great technique four or five years ago, before all the lessons, that would have gone south.
 

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