Alterra moves ahead (Mammoth, Squaw, Deer Valley, former Intrawest)

[Christy]

This was in the local (SV/Ketchum) paper this week, regarding SV Co's (non) participation in the Ikon Pass program. I find it pretty funny. We don't want to associate with that Aspen riffraff!

**

https://www.mtexpress.com/news/sun_...cle_ce15d264-0799-11e8-9f04-23bb6adfd7ef.html

Skiers and snowboarders won’t find Sun Valley Resort on the Ikon Pass list, and that’s just fine with resort General Manager Tim Silva. Silva said Wednesday that caution is necessary when it comes to deciding how to affiliate the Sun Valley brand...

Silva spoke at a Sun Valley Air Service Board meeting, which was held at Hailey City Hall on Wednesday afternoon. Sun Valley Mayor Peter Hendricks quizzed Silva as to why Sun Valley was not included in the Ikon Pass.

“It’s something we should weigh very, very carefully,” Silva said. “We have to be very careful about who we associate with. Getting that just right is very important.”

 

[marzNC]

This was in the local (SV/Ketchum) paper this week, regarding SV Co's (non) participation in the Ikon Pass program. I find it pretty funny. We don't want to associate with that Aspen riffraff!

Interesting. Perhaps it's the former Intrawest resorts such as Steamboat and Winter Park that are not considered quite in the same ball park. Most of the other Ikon partner resorts such as Aspen are expected to continue in the 2017-18 MCP. Only Telluride is completely out already since they are going to work with Vail as a perk for Epic pass holders.

With Deer Valley in the Ikon Pass, that could be more competition for Sun Valley.

* * *
Silva said Sun Valley is included in the Mountain Collective pass, which will continue into 2019. He said that has been successful in bringing business to the resort.

“Mountain Collective drives visits this year,” he said. “I think the success with Mountain Collective will just continue. We’re confident that Mountain Collective will continue to be the boon it has been for the last several years.”
* * *

 

[rhymeandreason]

This was in the local (SV/Ketchum) paper this week, regarding SV Co's (non) participation in the Ikon Pass program. I find it pretty funny. We don't want to associate with that Aspen riffraff!

**

https://www.mtexpress.com/news/sun_...cle_ce15d264-0799-11e8-9f04-23bb6adfd7ef.html

Skiers and snowboarders won’t find Sun Valley Resort on the Ikon Pass list, and that’s just fine with resort General Manager Tim Silva. Silva said Wednesday that caution is necessary when it comes to deciding how to affiliate the Sun Valley brand...

Silva spoke at a Sun Valley Air Service Board meeting, which was held at Hailey City Hall on Wednesday afternoon. Sun Valley Mayor Peter Hendricks quizzed Silva as to why Sun Valley was not included in the Ikon Pass.

“It’s something we should weigh very, very carefully,” Silva said. “We have to be very careful about who we associate with. Getting that just right is very important.”

Thanks for posting this article. The comments by the readers seem representative of the main two points of view. It’s either “we like it uncrowded and don’t need Ikon/epic tourists” or “we are being left behind/out”. I have to agree with the poster who said that visitors are more profitable than locals.

Everyone wants to ski at on empty slopes, but when it comes time to replace that multimillion dollar lift or renovate the main lodge, you need a lot of cash flow.

In the end, SV may end up in the middle of a bidding war between Ikon and Vail, or they may end up on their own. The manager, Mr. Silva, might be preparing their pass holders for an affiliation announcement further down the line.

 

[rhymeandreason]

Another perspective from a Created Butte local.

https://crestedbuttenews.com/2018/01/balance-in-the-ski-world/

 

[Christy]

Everyone wants to ski at on empty slopes, but when it comes time to replace that multimillion dollar lift or renovate the main lodge, you need a lot of cash flow.

SV is a little different in that is owned by the Holding Family. Earl and Carol were/are billionaires that own Sinclair Oil. Earl died a couple years ago but he was something like the 400th richest man in the world and SV was his and Carol's pet project. They've never relied on ski revenues to maintain the place. It was run down when they bought it in the 1970s and they put a TON of money into SV. I'm sure they don't like to lose money but maximizing profits doesn't seem to be their MO, and it does seem to be about quality of experience rather than quantity and lower prices. Carol has set it up so that the family can't sell SV until all the grandchildren are adults and they agree on it so it should be that way for a while at least...

 

[Christy]

I actually wonder how much $$$ SV makes off something like the MCP or would make off other passes. I've met quite a lot of people that have it, and almost all seem to be there for their 2 free days and that's it. Those people probably do buy day lodge food and drink, so there is that. But I bet most don't stay at the SV Lodge or Inn, which are the most expensive hotel rooms in the area. They are probably staying in one of the other 10 or so hotels in Ketchum not owned by Sun Valley Co, or in condos/Airbnbs. So while I bet the town of Ketchum (hotels/restaurants/shops) benefits a lot from the increased visitation, is it really worth it to the ski area to increase skier traffic in a place that people go because there aren't lift lines or crowded slopes?

 

[just jane]

@rhymeandreason Thanks for linking to that CB article. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and perspective. I think the author nailed it.

 

[rhymeandreason]

SV is a little different in that is owned by the Holding Family. Earl and Carol were/are billionaires that own Sinclair Oil. Earl died a couple years ago but he was something like the 400th richest man in the world and SV was his and Carol's pet project. They've never relied on ski revenues to maintain the place. It was run down when they bought it in the 1970s and they put a TON of money into SV. I'm sure they don't like to lose money but maximizing profits doesn't seem to be their MO, and it does seem to be about quality of experience rather than quantity and lower prices. Carol has set it up so that the family can't sell SV until all the grandchildren are adults and they agree on it so it should be that way for a while at least...

Christy, thanks for this information. I believe they own Snowbasin as well. I wish them the best of luck this year as Snowbasin is lacking in snow like the rest of Utah.

The idea of a family owned ski resort sounds like a dream come true, but it didn’t last through generations for Deer Valley. The Stern family who founded and owned DV, surprised everyone last year with their sale to the Crowns. I am pretty sure Edgar Stern, the founder, would have preferred for his son, Lessing, to keep it. Even with the success of DV, I guess Lessing and his partner felt that the offer was too good to pass up.

 

[mustski]

Sadly, it is hard to compete with the behemoths of Vail and Aspen ... and now, apparently, Intrawest. It come down to this ... how long to do the Holding family heirs want to own ski resorts and compete with the majors?

 

[marzNC]

Sadly, it is hard to compete with the behemoths of Vail and Aspen ... and now, apparently, Intrawest. It come down to this ... how long to do the Holding family heirs want to own ski resorts and compete with the majors?

Just to be clear, Aspen is not part of Alterra. The Crown family invested in Alterra but Aspen is owned and operated independently. Just as the family who own Snowbird also own Powdr. Powdr was part of the MAX Pass along with Boyne and Intrawest so those resorts are moving into Ikon as "partners" Aspen/Snowmass is a Partner in Ikon and also will be in the MCP for 2018-19.

Intrawest no long exists. Alterra bought all of the former Intrawest resorts, including Tremblant and Steamboat. Those resorts will be fully in Ikon.

Sounds like Sun Valley and Snowbasin will continue to be in the MCP for 2018-19.

 

[Christy]

Sadly, it is hard to compete with the behemoths of Vail and Aspen ... and now, apparently, Intrawest. It come down to this ... how long to do the Holding family heirs want to own ski resorts and compete with the majors?

Yeah, it sounds to me like Carol Holding doesn't trust her kids not to sell out once she's dead, thus the stipulation about the grandkids. I think they are in their teens now though. I know it won't last forever. It would be heartbreaking if some corporation did away with the historic Roundhouse, Trail Creek Cabin, the ice shows, and all the other things that make SV special.

 

[rhymeandreason]

SV sounds like a really special place. I’d love to visit!

All this consolidation in the US made me think of the ski experience in Europe, where I believe ski areas are owned and operated by a myriad of large and small companies, public and private. It really makes each place unique and less cookie cutter.

 

[marzNC]

Will be interesting to see if the Alterra resorts maintain their individuality. Their stated goal is to be a collection of resorts with unique features and feel. In contrast to what some people perceive as the blandness of Vail destination resorts.

 

[marzNC]

Alterra announced that Rusty Gregory will be CEO. He was CEO for Mammoth before the change in ownership in 2017. He will be based out of the Alterra company headquarters in Denver.

https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2018/02/07/ceo-annoucement

"DENVER, CO, February 7, 2018 - Alterra Mountain Company today announced the appointment of Rusty Gregory as Chief Executive Officer. Mr. Gregory is an investor in the company and has been a member of the Board of Directors since the company’s inception in August 2017. Mr. Gregory is an experienced travel industry executive and proven mountain resort innovator. His career in the ski industry spans 40 years starting as a lift operator at Mammoth Mountain in California where he rose through the ranks to become an owner and the company’s Chairman and CEO for over 20 years.
. . ."

 

[Jilly]

That's sounds good. Just like one of the instructors at Tremblant mentioned. They are now owned by ski people, not by someone that is out to suck all the money out of the place.

 

[mustski]

I hate to be pessimistic but “sucking the money out of the place” is exactly what Rusty Gregory did when Mammoth bough BBMR. They even took season passes away from their volunteer forces!

 

[marzNC]

Missed the press release a couple weeks ago about Mikaela Shiffrin becoming an investor in Alterra.

https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2018/01/25/mikaela-shiffrin-the-new-face-of-the-ikon-pass

"MIKAELA SHIFFRIN: THE NEW FACE OF THE IKON PASS
The Ikon Pass: Setting the Standard in Season Passes

DENVER, CO, January 26, 2018 - We are proud to announce that U.S. Ski Team’s Mikaela Shiffrin has joined forces with Alterra Mountain Company as an investor and is helping launch the Ikon Pass as an Ambassador. The Ikon Pass is North America’s premier pass for Winter 2018-2019 that offers skiers and riders access to 23 iconic destinations, and a like-minded community with a passion for the mountains.
. . . "

 

[marzNC]

Only a couple thousand FB Likes for the Ikon Pass FB Page as of 2/7/2018. Supposedly pricing will be released in February.



There was a comment by a long time Mammoth season pass holder suggesting that it would be good for the Ikon pricing and Mammoth season pass pricing be announced at about the same time. I would guess that Mammoth premium pass holders will be offered days or discounts at the other Ikon resorts, just as they got a 50% discount at MCP resorts in the past. Probably also some perks at the Ikon Partner resorts, which include MCP resorts.

 

[marzNC]

I hate to be pessimistic but “sucking the money out of the place” is exactly what Rusty Gregory did when Mammoth bough BBMR. They even took season passes away from their volunteer forces!

Do you know if BBMR was profitable before the purchase by Mammoth?

 

[rhymeandreason]

Someone showed me a video from a realtor in Steamboat who met with Alterra recently and got some info on the Ikon pass. It’s a short video, and the takeaways were

- the pass will be “priced aggressively”
- there will be two tiers
- lower priced passes at smaller places like Snowshoe will remain in place.

I apologize but I am not on Facebook so I can’t find the video to post. It’s by a realtor named John Wade of the Steamboat Group.