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After a good outing, a bad outing…feeling defeated (newbie here)

EeveeCanSki

Certified Ski Diva
Hi everyone…I’m a newbie skier here, 4 days total on the slope over three seasons. I’ve been (very) slowly gauging my desire and commitment to pursue the sport, and this year after purchasing a pair of boots suitable to my narrow feet, had a breakthrough on my third outing ever, where I felt like I was floating down a hill. Granted it was the bunny hill, but I was linking turns well (small wedge, wedge christies), truly feeling the transition from flat to edge, beginning to use my edges, having fun following my instructor down, and we tackled a steeper green with success at the hill I visited and I was feeling great. This was two weeks ago, after about eleven months between outings. I was so encouraged by this that, and with the support of my skiing SO, I purchased skis. These were a different model from my rentals, something a local shop recommended because I could grow with them, and were longer (136 cm rental vs 142 cm purchase, these skis come to my chin, I’m 5’4”). My goal for the next few seasons is to ski with confidence and control on greens and longer green cruisers, so therefore mellow, but still fun, so I would think I’d be stable enough on something shorter. Also if I’m to be realistic, we may go 2-4 times in a season.

This past weekend, I took the new skis out, and holy cow, I felt like I forgot everything from two weeks ago. I once again took a lesson (this time at a different hill a bit closer to us, with a different instructor), and I explained that I had new skis, slightly longer than what I used before. He was patient and understanding, helped me with some warm-up runs to get my feet under me, and I felt that the skis weren’t getting away from me while coasting in a straight line. Turning was a completely different story—I could not gently guide and steer my uphill ski next to my downhill ski. The skis felt heavy and unwieldy. These moves were happening completely on autopilot two weeks ago and felt natural. This day, however, even with the instructor’s guidance (and he was excellent), I felt that for anything he asked me to do which should have felt somewhat familiar with became hazardous and I would freeze. My instructor would come get me, I would tell him what was going on and how I felt, we found ways to work through my anxiety and get down the hill together, and I just attempted the skills—more turning, finding lines--as best as I could. He complimented me on my sense of control and balance and my ability to ride the chairlift—all wonderful accomplishments when new. No surprise about the balance for me…I’ve been figure skating off and on for many years, and I have a good sense of how to hold my core for this. Plus I love the sensation of gliding, which came naturally with that sport and makes sense to me with skiing too.

Now, I fully expected that the new skis would feel different, but not so different to the point of feeling like I was regressing, hence the frustration…I probably made some progress I don’t have the perspective for yet because the feeling of defeat is still raw with me this morning, even reminding myself, that was only my 4th day out. I spoke to the ski school director about my experience and he was so kind as to offer me a free group lesson this season to try again at his hill while I work through these skills. He was also kind enough to speak with me a bit about differences in ski construction, and it led me to think—I did so well on the skis from two weeks ago, perhaps I should rent that very model again, and compare on the same day what feels best between the skis I purchased and the rental skis. I wish I had thought to do so this past weekend. It very well could be that the rentals had a better profile for me and I needed to further gain skills on that or a similar ski before taking on a slightly longer ski, and as my instructor said, even a couple inches can feel like miles under your feet.

So going forward, I am considering the following—take another lesson (Level 2 was recommended for me) on the longer skis, and take another group lesson the same day on the shorter skis, and compare how I feel and my performance. Would this be a good strategy for my next time out? Or take another private for two hours—spend part of the time on my ski, then part of the time on the rental, and compare movements and control between the two scenarios with professional input? Or take my lesson on the longer skis, pop the shorter skis back on my boots on my own time since I know how they feel from before?

I want to stick with this sport, but with this feeling I’m wondering why I still have the drive today to go again—I felt so horrible Saturday that it took all I had to hold back crying out of frustration until we got back to our car…then it all just came pouring out. I felt like I smacked myself repeatedly with a cold wet fish, and that perhaps I deserved it because I had better expectations for myself and I didn't perform up to them. I hoped more to feel like I was moving forward, not getting stuck and worse, feeling panic creep in. Driving from the resort in tears was the last thing I wanted when I left my ski session prior all smiles. My SO consoled me as best as he could and promised he would stand by me in whatever way possible if I want to keep going in this endeavor.

If it would also help, I can discuss more of the specs of the gear in the appropriate forum for understanding of some of the more gritty mechanical why’s about one ski maybe feeling better than the other, aside from the length, but I wanted to introduce where I'm at with this activity first and what I hope to do with it in the near future. Thanks for reading—any additional perspectives you all have will be helpful, and I am glad to have found this community.
 

Albertan ski girl

Angel Diva
I definitely don't have any solutions for you - but perhaps just sharing some of my experience? I learned to ski as an adult, and I would often have feelings like you describe above. There were days I felt amazing, and days when I felt like I forgot everything. It's hard to pin point what is going on - yes, it could be the equipment, of course. What skis did you rent that you were comfortable on? What are the new skis? What are each of their lengths? Perhaps there might be some insight there. It could also be a matter of confidence - as an adult skier, my confidence was often all over the place, and I found that my state of mind could very easily affect my skiing. The other thing to remember is that sometimes we just have off days. I went skiing with SO this past weekend - one day was great, and the other was crap and I called it a day a few runs after lunch. I'm not sure why. The conditions were similar both days - fresh snow, soft and dry - my favourite kinds of conditions. I felt adventurous and capable the first day, I was having fun. The second day, I just couldn't get into it. I had a fall on my first run - it really wasn't bad at all, no injuries, pretty slow speed, but I just let it affect me for the rest of the day. I wasn't feeling it and I felt my skiing was no good after that. So I called it quits and had drinks instead :smile: I have to remind myself that I don't have to improve every time I ski, sometimes we all have off-days, and that apres ski doesn't have to be enjoyed 'apres', but during as well :smile:
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I also learned as an adult and my experience was one step forward, two steps back. Sometimes I marvel that I even kept with it.

Those new skis, at 142, are still very short. What is the model?

It could be that: they just feel really weird after those super short rentals; the construction is different and you have to get used to that; it's possible they just aren't suited for you--can you try to rent a longer version of the rental skis you liked? I also wonder about wax. So they felt hard to maneuver, right? That could be improper wax for conditions.

ETA: I wonder about the idea of putting beginners on very short skis. What do instructors think of this? Does it ever lead to problems when they move up? It reminds me of my friend who learned to ride horses by being on a lunge line but when it came time to control the horse on her own she was scared. It really retarded her progress.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Like Christy....I'm wondering about the tune. Sometimes new skis don't come out of the package correct. Did your instructor look at the bottoms of the skis? But what did you buy....manufacturer and model. I'm not sure I like the statement "grow into". This time of year some shops are trying to get rid of skis, especially if they know that model has been discontinued the next year. You might just have skis that is too much right now.

As for length. Shorter is easier, but not the best. Too short of ski can be squirrely at speed, or chatter at speed. Chin length is the right length for now.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes what @Albertan ski girl said. I have been skiing for over two decades, and some days are amazing, and some ... aren't, and it's not always clear why. Sometimes it's the ski, but sometimes it's not.

Remember the good turns and forget the bad. That's how you get better and don't drive yourself nuts.
 

EeveeCanSki

Certified Ski Diva
There was a lot going on with me on Saturday--it was overwhelming at times, and variables with skiing can be many. (Apres helped me gather my wits though! :beer: ) I was at a different hill, different instructor, different crowd, and different snow conditions (PP vs LG, the latter of which is what I skied on and had the great day). Also, that I am analytical by nature probably isn't helping me too much here...:smile:...but if I can pinpoint what variable was causing me the most concern, and the biggest difference between the days, was for me, the skis. I'm gonna give them another whirl at the same hill I went to this past weekend and keep a keen eye on my technique too so I can parse out what's up to me to improve.

I have the K2 Luv 75, 2017 model @142. Two weeks ago, I skied on Nordica Elexa Evos (2015's), @ 136. (Yes, very short!) Shorter ski, less contact with snow, smaller turn radius. This could have helped my maneuverability, and they were waxed properly--we confirmed that before leaving the rental shop. Also, these Nordicas were advertised in an old link I found on the web as rocker/camber, while the K2s are advertised as rocker/camber/rocker. I have a good relationship with the rental shop in my area so I can ask them too what they recommend per ski length, and if I could take say two pairs with me, if they will hire two pairs to one person.

Thanks for everyone's input thus far. The wax issue is a good point. The instructor didn't look at the bottom of my skis--the shop said they came pre-waxed, but I don't think they touched anything beyond mounting the bindings once everything was out of the plastic.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
But is the bottom of the ski flat. Sometimes they come out of the box concave or convex. I'm not up on the K2 line, but it sounds like a "normal" ski. Another thought is that the Nordica's had only tip rocker or sometimes called easy turn rocker (Rossi speak). The K2 has a tail rocker too.

Give them a chance were you're more familiar with the slopes.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I understand your frustration all too well. I like to have one or two pendant ("during") beers on the patio when I start skiing like garbage and I know it. Then I just go out on an easy slope and do some long, patient turns and some javelin drills, since my big weaknesses are getting in the backseat and shoving my tails instead of completing turns. I get bored doing this normally, but after two beers, it's enough of a challenge that it keeps me occupied.

Especially since you say you're analytical by nature, I recommend Lito Tejada-Flores' Breakthrough on the New Skis book as well. It really helped me with some basic skills that instructors didn't ever seem to mention, like when and exactly how to start a turn, what to do with the inside ski...etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough...1486423142&sr=8-3&keywords=lito+tejada-flores

I'm lower-intermediate trying really aggressively to improve, and I spend a lot of time on my local hill working, working, working to get better. It's almost always fun, unless my feet hurt (metatarsal pain sometimes). But I do have frustrating periods. I've found that just goofing around, bopping from easy to moderate to slightly challenging trails and back and forth in all combinations randomly is really fun and keeps me from obsessing about whether I did better on this or that run. I sort of yell at myself and say "Dude, you have very limited free time and you are bumming yourself out for no reason on an otherwise great day. Plus, there's a bar 3 minutes away from you at all times. Stop harshing on your own fun."

Can't speak to equipment except to say that I like to demo skis when the chance arises just to learn about different types and how they feel. I've definitely tried some that I immediately wanted Off. My. Feet. Now. because they felt horrible. I've also had super-frustrating days that turned completely around when I tried a different ski after lunch. There are, like, eleventy-thousand factors that go into how a ski works for you, and as a beginner, you wouldn't necessarily be able to discern ski issues from skill issues (my skis all came from the shop with an enormous degree of Operator Error. I need to get the guys to address that with maybe some sort of skill-shim, or ability-angle-adjustment.)

Don't give up! And keep us posted on your progress!
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I like to have one or two pendant ("during") beers on the patio when I start skiing like garbage and I know it. Then I just go out on an easy slope and do some long, patient turns and some javelin drills, since my big weaknesses are getting in the backseat and shoving my tails instead of completing turns. I get bored doing this normally, but after two beers, it's enough of a challenge that it keeps me occupied.

Brilliant. I want to ski with you.
 

Obrules15

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Any equipment change, extended interval, or snow condition change causes me to have a crap day. I try to not even plan to ski one day anymore because I know my first day on anything new is going to be a disaster.

I've been skiing for years and when I purchased my current skis the first day was a disaster (149 -> 152), and when I changed bindings I also lost my ability to even pretend to link turns.

Last night I got stuckish on a blue run with slush bumps. I've successfully skied that run many times and much steeper but it was a first day with a slightly different gear setup and - disaster!

The other thing besides length on your new skis is the binding ramp angle. It's possibly different enough to give you trouble.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Hi @EeveeCanSki!

Fellow newbie/adult learner here - I just completed Day 16. I have my own boots and rental skis. Day 16 was such a disappointment after Day 15! On Day 15 I came here to the forum and announced that I'm a blue trail skier! Yay! So on Day 16, I decide to hit one of those blue trails first thing, before my legs get tired. Now, last week I skied Thursday night (a little), Saturday (Day 15, 4+ hours - I couldn't quit, it was so much fun), and Sunday, the dreaded Day 16.

Well, starting on that blue was a terrible choice. I, too, seemed to forget everything that was working on Saturday, and I was out of control and couldn't seem to regain it. I fell on purpose. (Why wasn't I turning uphill? Because my legs got scared and forgot how to do it!)

I did realize that my legs were tired on the first run. I quit being a blue skier for the day, and went back to my tried-and-true green runs. Where I felt like a million dollars again, although a little sheepish.

This has already happened to me a half-dozen times. Try not to take it so hard. It's not you - it's skiing. Skis changed, conditions changed, instructors changed, bindings changed, tuning might be off. Keep trying!
 

EeveeCanSki

Certified Ski Diva
But is the bottom of the ski flat. Sometimes they come out of the box concave or convex. I'm not up on the K2 line, but it sounds like a "normal" ski. Another thought is that the Nordica's had only tip rocker or sometimes called easy turn rocker (Rossi speak). The K2 has a tail rocker too.

The bottom of the ski isn't flat--now that it's out of the package, you can clearly see the profile of the rocker and the camber, with the greater rocker in the tip and a bit of rocker in the tail. It's an all-mountain ski. I wish I had thought to pay more attention to the profile on the Nordicas I rented--but next time, I will do, knowing what I know now. I stood up next to my skis again this evening to make doubly sure about the length, and still hitting just by the chin, so I'm good there.

Especially since you say you're analytical by nature, I recommend Lito Tejada-Flores' Breakthrough on the New Skis book as well. It really helped me with some basic skills that instructors didn't ever seem to mention, like when and exactly how to start a turn, what to do with the inside ski...etc.

Can't speak to equipment except to say that I like to demo skis when the chance arises just to learn about different types and how they feel. I've definitely tried some that I immediately wanted Off. My. Feet. Now. because they felt horrible. I've also had super-frustrating days that turned completely around when I tried a different ski after lunch. There are, like, eleventy-thousand factors that go into how a ski works for you, and as a beginner, you wouldn't necessarily be able to discern ski issues from skill issues (my skis all came from the shop with an enormous degree of Operator Error. I need to get the guys to address that with maybe some sort of skill-shim, or ability-angle-adjustment.)

Don't give up! And keep us posted on your progress!

Thank you for the book suggestion--I will have to check that out! Yes, demoing came to mind, and another thing I didn't think of and that the shop didn't suggest was my renting skis for a season with them before committing all out to a model. (The boots were a good buy though--I ended up with the Lange RX80 and they can be a son of a bumble bee to get on my foot, but my foot feels so secure in them with no sliding in the heel and last.) Should my K2s not work for me though I do have 1 year to return them for something else. Demo days here the mid-Atlantic is that they are few and far-between at the hills within easy (< 2 hr) driving distance from me, and if on a weekday, would be a challenge to get there. Point is also well-taken about what's a ski issue vs. a skill issue at this point, being so new...right now, I'm reflecting a lot on feel and what got me moving and feeling happy. It's entirely possible the same epiphany will happen with the new skis--I am trying to keep as open a mind as possible. But when I got moving and had that breakthrough, it made me want to keep moving! :smile:

So many great suggestions here and kind words--thank you ladies. I am definitely taking notes for my next outing! Even with the frustration of this weekend, I'm still happy to be out there and trying (and doing!), and that I didn't have to pop my skis and walk down a hill out of fear or fatigue is something I'm proud of. It may be a couple weeks yet before I get back up to the hill but I should be able to make another trip this month. This will get sorted one way or another and hopefully I'll leave the slopes smiling again, or at the very least pleased I learned something more about why a certain design or technique may work better for me. This is a process indeed.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Even those of us who have been skiing 30+ years have crap days, especially when there's been an equipment change.....and you changed boots AND skis!

Give the new skis another try or 2 before ditching them. It's possible that your rentals were really soft and haven't been tuned in a while, making them really easy to just slide them around. If your new skis have nice sharp edges, that could be hanging you up. You may want to take them to a shop and have the tips and tails lightly detuned (the edges rounded off some) - that will make them feel shorter and make them easier to skid and slide.

Another option is to try those same rental skis with the new boots and see if that feel better.....it's possible that your stance in the new boots is different, or the ramp angle on your new skis has changed your balance.
 

EeveeCanSki

Certified Ski Diva
If your new skis have nice sharp edges, that could be hanging you up. You may want to take them to a shop and have the tips and tails lightly detuned (the edges rounded off some) - that will make them feel shorter and make them easier to skid and slide.

Edges--yes! Another good thought that makes sense to me--I remember when I was younger and got my first pair of figure skating blades, and they were so sharp (and also with a slightly deeper hollow) that when I got out on the ice, I literally felt like I was trying to skate through superglue. I got over it though and was soon flying around the rink again, happily.

As for the boots, my Lange boots are the same ones I had on the rentals I liked, and the same ones I used on my K2s this Saturday. This is a well-fitting boot for me; I modified it using the provided tools to soften it a bit from 80 to 70-ish, can take it down a scootch to 65-ish if I want but the boot isn't feeling stiff-I could lean forward in it and stay over both skis I've used it with. I like your suggestion too about a balance change--I noticed I was feeling in the backseat a little more on the new skis, but that could also have been the result of some anxiety creeping in when I couldn't steer as well as I thought, and I had to force myself forward.

I'm hoping my next outing will be better, and I plan to try the same rental skis with my boots again to see if indeed that combination is better for movement. What is heartening for me as well is that two different instructors at two different hills have given me a similar assessment of beginner skills that will help me keep going--having a keen sense of balance and core control.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
I'm a reasonably good skater, and everyone told me it would make learning to ski easier. Keeping balance while in motion is a big part of it - it freaks people out if you're not used to it. Gliding, too. The big change is STEEP! I feel like I'm learning quickly (despite my unhappy Day 16 discoveries) and I'm sure it's, in part, due to skating experience.
 

EeveeCanSki

Certified Ski Diva
I'm a reasonably good skater, and everyone told me it would make learning to ski easier. Keeping balance while in motion is a big part of it - it freaks people out if you're not used to it. Gliding, too. The big change is STEEP! I feel like I'm learning quickly (despite my unhappy Day 16 discoveries) and I'm sure it's, in part, due to skating experience.

Oh that steep got me the first time I ever put on skis, and pitch changes get to me now! Two weeks ago when I was going down the mid-tier green at my hill, a pitch change caught me off guard and I could not get my control back. Every expletive and then some began to run through my head until my wits kicked in to just fall because that was the only way I was going to stop and I had a yard sale. It was high quality entertainment for everyone else on the slope--and I was ok--and the instructor and I had a good laugh about it later.

But onto reflecting skating and skiing...how do you feel when skidding? For me, when I was finding my edges whether on the shorter skis or the longer ones, I felt much more secure--a skid on skates is, at many times, not desirable (plus my training in my adult years focused more on edgework and power rather than freestyle). This Saturday I felt like I was skidding through more moves rather than flowing, and I found it a bit unnerving--but it was also very crowded, with a lot of slowing down to avoid others, so linking more than a few turns in either direction was at times a challenge. The skid feeling may be something I have to get more accustomed to though on skis at appropriate times when going down the hill.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Oh that steep got me the first time I ever put on skis, and pitch changes get to me now! Two weeks ago when I was going down the mid-tier green at my hill, a pitch change caught me off guard and I could not get my control back. Every expletive and then some began to run through my head until my wits kicked in to just fall because that was the only way I was going to stop and I had a yard sale. It was high quality entertainment for everyone else on the slope--and I was ok--and the instructor and I had a good laugh about it later.

But onto reflecting skating and skiing...how do you feel when skidding? For me, when I was finding my edges whether on the shorter skis or the longer ones, I felt much more secure--a skid on skates is, at many times, not desirable (plus my training in my adult years focused more on edgework and power rather than freestyle). This Saturday I felt like I was skidding through more moves rather than flowing, and I found it a bit unnerving--but it was also very crowded, with a lot of slowing down to avoid others, so linking more than a few turns in either direction was at times a challenge. The skid feeling may be something I have to get more accustomed to though on skis at appropriate times when going down the hill.

There are much better skiers here to answer technically about the use of skidding. It sure does feel different from most things we ought to do on skates!

Although I expect to get more efficient in better stopping/slowing techniques, I certainly use skidding to help me slow down when I need to suddenly. (A crowded hill is a very hard place to learn - can you ever go on a week day? HUGE difference!). Skidding on skis feels like the (skating) hockey stop.

(I realize I don't know exactly how figure skaters stop!)

There is a "hockey stop" in skiing, too, that seems to involve some skidding. But as I said, almost anyone here can talk about the right way to do things better than I can!

So much feels "wrong" when we are first learning to ski! The whole idea is wrong, according to some physiological/psychological mechanisms in our nervous systems and balance systems that are well-designed for survival. So anxiety is really natural!

I love to talk about this. It has been such a life-altering experience!
 

Obrules15

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
There are much better skiers here to answer technically about the use of skidding. It sure does feel different from most things we ought to do on skates!

Although I expect to get more efficient in better stopping/slowing techniques, I certainly use skidding to help me slow down when I need to suddenly. (A crowded hill is a very hard place to learn - can you ever go on a week day? HUGE difference!). Skidding on skis feels like the (skating) hockey stop.

(I realize I don't know exactly how figure skaters stop!)

There is a "hockey stop" in skiing, too, that seems to involve some skidding. But as I said, almost anyone here can talk about the right way to do things better than I can!

So much feels "wrong" when we are first learning to ski! The whole idea is wrong, according to some physiological/psychological mechanisms in our nervous systems and balance systems that are well-designed for survival. So anxiety is really natural!

I love to talk about this. It has been such a life-altering experience!

Yes, our nervous system is hard wired to think *bad* when sliding down a hill at upwards of 20 mph. Luckily, it can be reprogrammed!
 

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