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Advice on backcountry gear

MissySki

Angel Diva
Mostly I'm curious about beacons. I want to take avy 1 next season to gain some knowledge on getting into the backcountry a little bit, nothing excessive. (I'm very risk averse in this endeavor..) I want a reliable beacon that's easy to use.

I've been looking at two beacons right now:
The Mammut Element and the Ortovox 3+

Anyone have any experience/opinions of either one, or other suggestions on ones I should look into? I'm not very price conscious in this area since I believe this is a really important piece of gear, but there are sales right now so I figure I might be able to get a good deal if I buy now rather than next season.

Any considerations I should take into account for probes and shovels, or are they mostly created equal? I haven't really paid too much attention to varieties there yet.

Early next season I'm planning on demoing some skis as potentials for an AT setup.. some on the list so far are the Sambas, Santa Anas, Saffrons..any other suggestions for skis, skins or bindings to think about?

I'm a total AT setup virgin, so any advice and words of wisdom are much appreciated! :smile:
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I do not have a lot of experience, but here are my thoughts:

I LOVE my Pieps. It is super easy to use, even for multiple burials, even when I haven't played with it for months. Unfortunately, it's pretty expensive, but you said you weren't too price conscious. DH and I got a screaming deal on ours, probably because it was the last season that model was produced. But - I've noticed that for example REI doesn't typically apply their discounts to beacons. I think typically that stock carries forward.

For probes, test your ability to flick it out in the store (don't hit anyone!). Mine is hard for me to lock out, even just playing around with it, which doesn't bode well for an actual high stress scenario. DH, who is stronger, has the same model and no problems. Also, get one with measurement marks. Per SAFE AS clinic, you want to start digging below the person at 1.5x the distance that your pole traveled. Having the actual depth as a number is a big help.

Shovels: get metal, not plastic. Avy debris has been compared to the compacted snow that plows shove to the side of the road. Imagine trying to get through that.

Do you have a pack already? It's important that your pack, shovel, and probe work well together. Ideally your shovel can be packed inside your pack, not strapped on - otherwise, if you go sliding, the shovel could come off. Even if you're not in a state to use it, someone else in may be. If I didn't already have a pack, I'd give strong consideration to buying one that has an airbag system, or at least is designed to work with an airbag system I could buy later.

For skis - my preference is to get something forgiving. I'm not very fit. Skinning uphill is exhausting, and uses a lot of the same muscles that skiing down will use. Then on top of that you're adjusting from sticking to sliding, and now that your calves are swollen from pumping blood through the muscle, you need to lock down your boots even tighter. I figure, the easier I can make it on myself, the better. The Santa Ana, she is not a light ski. I went through a few different skis for my backcountry setup - kept moving bindings around - and I'm happy now with my old Line Celebrity 100s, which are unfortunately not made anymore. They are light, soft, and comfortable as a houseshoe for me. Of course, your backcountry snow may not be the same as mine, and maybe the Santa Ana's crud busting would come in handy.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
One other thought. I don't recall if you have dogs. Pieps can actually detect on two different frequencies; you can buy transmitters on a second frequency that the Pieps can detect *after* it goes through the regular frequency. Good for dogs, snow mobiles, anything that you want to track but is less critical than finding humans.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I do not have a lot of experience, but here are my thoughts:

I LOVE my Pieps. It is super easy to use, even for multiple burials, even when I haven't played with it for months. Unfortunately, it's pretty expensive, but you said you weren't too price conscious. DH and I got a screaming deal on ours, probably because it was the last season that model was produced. But - I've noticed that for example REI doesn't typically apply their discounts to beacons. I think typically that stock carries forward.

Which Pieps model do you have?

For probes, test your ability to flick it out in the store (don't hit anyone!). Mine is hard for me to lock out, even just playing around with it, which doesn't bode well for an actual high stress scenario. DH, who is stronger, has the same model and no problems. Also, get one with measurement marks. Per SAFE AS clinic, you want to start digging below the person at 1.5x the distance that your pole traveled. Having the actual depth as a number is a big help.

That is good to know, I hadn't thought of my size/strength potentially being an issue with using a probe.

Shovels: get metal, not plastic. Avy debris has been compared to the compacted snow that plows shove to the side of the road. Imagine trying to get through that.

Yeah I definitely don't have any brute strength to help plastic along if needed, metal sounds like a much better idea!!

Do you have a pack already? It's important that your pack, shovel, and probe work well together. Ideally your shovel can be packed inside your pack, not strapped on - otherwise, if you go sliding, the shovel could come off. Even if you're not in a state to use it, someone else in may be. If I didn't already have a pack, I'd give strong consideration to buying one that has an airbag system, or at least is designed to work with an airbag system I could buy later.

Right now I only have my Ortovox, the one I used in Montana. I assume I'll need something more accommodating than it is size wise., but really have no idea what will fit in it so I'll have to play with that. Have thought about backpacks that have the airbags in them, but I think that might be overkill for my purposes right now, not off the table overall though.

For skis - my preference is to get something forgiving. I'm not very fit. Skinning uphill is exhausting, and uses a lot of the same muscles that skiing down will use. Then on top of that you're adjusting from sticking to sliding, and now that your calves are swollen from pumping blood through the muscle, you need to lock down your boots even tighter. I figure, the easier I can make it on myself, the better. The Santa Ana, she is not a light ski. I went through a few different skis for my backcountry setup - kept moving bindings around - and I'm happy now with my old Line Celebrity 100s, which are unfortunately not made anymore. They are light, soft, and comfortable as a houseshoe for me. Of course, your backcountry snow may not be the same as mine, and maybe the Santa Ana's crud busting would come in handy.

So I haven't been in the backcountry here yet, so I'm not positive how the snow is! My assumption is that it would be much heavier and more cruddy than CO since our snow normally tends in that direction, which was a reason I wanted to try the Santa Ana (In particular because you have commented on their great crud performance!). However, you do bring up a great point if they are heavy. Though I'll be starting out with in bounds and side country stuff more than any kind of long backcountry tours, it is something to consider so I don't have to adjust setups later if it turns into more. My leg muscles can lose steam really fast sometimes, so it's probably a really big factor for me to consider weight here for conserving energy on the uphill..

One other thought. I don't recall if you have dogs. Pieps can actually detect on two different frequencies; you can buy transmitters on a second frequency that the Pieps can detect *after* it goes through the regular frequency. Good for dogs, snow mobiles, anything that you want to track but is less critical than finding humans.
I do have a dog, but she's a pug and hates the cold/snow so she won't be out with us on these types of adventures, good to know though.
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Regarding the probe ... yeah, test it out, especially before your Avy 1 class. DS had lost the handle to my shovel, which stored the probe (neat idea until you lose the handle, then you have to buy TWO new pieces of gear), so I ordered a new one for cheap; it was probably summer and I didn't practice with it before class because, well, how hard can it be? It's a probe. My last one was fine. I swear, I was a total dork trying to use it, which of course I didn't do until we were practicing searches.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hey, @MissySki - the way you replied inside the quote means the "Reply" button won't grab your text =/

My beacon is a Pieps DSP: https://www.pieps.com/en/product/pieps-dsp ... hmm, maybe it's not off the market.

Unfortunately, crudbusting and weight tend to go together in a ski. Weight vs effort is definitely a personal trade-off. Different for everyone.
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Read here for beacon reviews. I have a BCA Tracker 2, and I find it very simple to use and understand. The review of the Tracker 3 points out that multiple-burial capability is nice, but in reality, you're lucky to dig out one victim much less a couple.
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I also meant to include that I've used both the Element and the Tracker DTS (maybe obsolete now? - only 2 antennae, I think?), and between the two, I preferred the Element because they way you changed functions in the Tracker (pressing a button once or twice, or holding it for a few seconds until the display changed) stressed me out. Sliding a button (Element) gave me more assurance of what mode I was in.

The Tracker 2 has a different way of going from send to receive, but during practice, I've seen someone using the Tracker 2 have the problem of her transceiver inadvertently going from search to send because she (repeatedly) accidentally pushed the lever back in to send mode. So, having seen her deal with that, for me in a 3 antennae vs. 3 antennae showdown, the Element came out ahead. I am confident that if this was not this person's first time using the Tracker 2, she would have been more familiar with its quirks.

In general, transceivers are not difficult to use. If the course you take next year provides transceivers that you can use during the course, I would hold off on buying until you get a better sense of what may be your priorities.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Well after reading lots of reviews and watching review videos tonight, DH and I both decided that we really liked the Pieps beacon. Backcountry.com is having all around great sales right now and there were only 2 more of the Pieps model we wanted in stock so we grabbed them up. I figure we can play with them a bit when they come in and make sure we like them since we won't get them out for real until next season. I was going to sleep on it, but declining inventory since earlier today scared me, and the return policy is great so figured it was better to pull the trigger than overanalze like I love to do.

Yay I'm excited to have one thing checked off of the list now! Thanks @bounceswoosh, Pieps hadn't made it onto my radar yet until you brought it up. :smile:
 

klar

Certified Ski Diva
Good choice on the pieps, another pieps fan here..
If the options were element and +3 I would definitely take the element. None of the modern 3 antenna beacons are terrible but they all have their own special little issues, mainly you need to be comfortable with your own beacon.

I second what other have said on probe (not too short, try out in store) and shovel (metal, extendable handle, also try out in store). Re. setup: Figure out if you want tech bindings (I would definitely recommend if you plan to move uphill). If you do you need to get boots with inserts...
 

snow addict

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Regarding set up and fitness: this is what going uphill is all about - getting fitter with every time you do it. But for uphill you want to shed as much weight as you reasonably can, so if a plain ski is above 1.5 kilo you should probably stay away and your legs will be thankful. Light skis, light bindings and light boots make huge difference. Lot of options on the market and modern touring skis do not necessarily suck on the downhill, though you have to watch the technique, particularly in sticky spring snow. However, if the maximum uphill you will be doing is 1 hour or so, you can disregard all of the above, get any skis that you fancy and put something like Marker Barons on them, can even use your regular boots. You will probably be slow and feel the weight but for one hour it's not a big deal and you should manage. We do long days now so I am very glad I decided to go the tech way, though I don't think I would like the set up for regular resort skiing. I was afraid Dynafit bindings would be more complicated than Fritschis I had been using previously, but if anything I find them easier to use. Whichever bindings you go for, makes sense to get a pair of ski crampons to go with them, they can be extremely handy particularly in spring when in the morning snow can be rock solid and very slippery for skins alone. And choosing skis probably makes sense not to go too long. I would say shorter than what would you go for with powder skis. Turning uphill is harder than turning downhill, so make your life little bit easier. Flatish tails are better then full twins or rockered tails as they give you a bit more of contact surface which you will appreciate if you start sliding down :smile:). Check Movement skis, Scott 'Air collection, Volkl Nanuq - are all very popular, light with good performance. Nanuq is the basically the same ski as Mantra, but without metal and made with lighter wood, very popular, and if I remember correctly Volkl Nunataq (10 mm wider than Nanuq) got tons of awards and was a winner at a number of test events, light and powerful. K2 have a good backcountry selection too. Whatever you go for in the end, learn how to use it at home, skins fastenings might need adjustment too and it's easier to do when your fingers are not frozen cold.

Regarding airbag - a good thing to have but I don't take mine for full-on backcountry with long uphill. I ski with it daily doing side country etc., but the weight is just too much for me for 3+ hours up as I already carry a lot on my back. More weight = slower speed = less safety margin. Plus it will also add volume, so all this extra weight will be to the back and put a strain on your stance. So, it's just a backpack with avalanche gear, lot of water, clothes, ski crampons, picnic and other necessary stuff. Energy bars and sunblock are better to have in the pockets to avoid the hassle of taking your bag off and putting it back on again every time you need them.
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
...The Tracker 2 has a different way of going from send to receive, but during practice, I've seen someone using the Tracker 2 have the problem of her transceiver inadvertently going from search to send because she (repeatedly) accidentally pushed the lever back in to send mode. So, having seen her deal with that, for me in a 3 antennae vs. 3 antennae showdown, the Element came out ahead. I am confident that if this was not this person's first time using the Tracker 2, she would have been more familiar with its quirks....

That kind of boggles my mind (but then again, I was struggling with that probe).
 

klar

Certified Ski Diva
I forgot:
regarding probes: pieps makes something called the "i-probe". It's a normal probe with a receiver in the tip. Essentially it starts beeping when you get close to the sending beacon. I have it and while not totally necessary I think it's pretty nice and imo it doesn't have any downsides.
https://www.pieps.com/en/product/pieps-iprobe-one
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Also ... and sorry for replying in such piecemeal fashion ... I just saved an old pair of skis for this purpose. The bindings are quite pricey, and hard to find good discounts on, so I chose to economize on skis. My OG Volkl Auras are so light, putting Dynafits on those things, they are like little feathers on my feet. The vast majority of my time on skis is spent in resorts; I don't really get that many hours of touring each year. So the up ends up being more important than the down, in a way, when I'm out there.
 

Xinga

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
DH and I have the OrtoVox beacons. We chose them because they outperformed via speed the other beacons when we demoed them inside the REI store.
 

snow addict

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have Ortovox 3+ and I really like it as it is (to me ) very easy to operate and picks up the signal pretty much immediately at least in a controlled training environment and my search times are good. Anyway, transceivers are all pretty much the same, you just need to get one that appeals to you and familiarise yourself with it. If both of you already baught transceivers there is no need to wait for the next season as you can play hide and seek in the house :smile:
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Was she holding it sideways or something? I mean, I just can't picture...

I think she pressed it back in towards her body. Like, rather than holding it out, she switched to receive and brought it back into her body like someone reading a book or texting, which switched it back into send. We were all confused as to why she never picked up any signal. It was an AIARE 1 course, the transceiver was borrowed and new-ish on the market (Dec. 2010), so the instructors weren't as familiar with possible random things that a newbie could do to it.
 

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