Advice Needed: European Alps Skiing - Where to go?

[elemmac]

I'm in the beginning stages of planning an over-seas ski vacation for next year, and looking for advice. There are so many places to go, and everywhere looks absolutely beautiful.

I'll be doing a 1.5 to 2 week vacation with my fiance (will be DH by the time we go!! Ah!), looking to probably do 2 different resorts while there. I'd love to do more if it's reasonable, but also want to really get the full experience, so if that means only going to one resort that'd be okay too. I'd really love Zermatt to be one of those places, but can be flexible if there are other ideas that sound better.

What I'm looking for: I'm going to ski...not to party, shop, or spend time at a spa...primary focus is skiing. So looking for the best snow (I know this is never guaranteed, but someplace that increases my odds of powder days will be a huge plus). With that in mind, when's the best time to go? Is it like the US where I'd say end of February/beginning of March is generally the best skiing on an average year?

Looking for a variety of terrain, without having a focus on beginner terrain, ski-schools, etc. We don't have kids, so "family-oriented" ski resorts are not a necessity for us. We both enjoy skiing off-piste, but have only ever really skied in avalanche controlled areas and/or where avalanche control is unnecessary. We might be interested in doing a guided tour if it'll add to our experience and open up terrain we may not have found on our own (or cat skiing...heli skiing...anything of this sort would interest us if the recommendations are good and it's worth the cost).

Where should I go? ...The world is my oyster.

 

[Cygnet]

Isn't it hard when there's so much choice! You may need to factor in annoying non-skiing things like jet lag and currency exchange rates as well. But, leaving those issues to one side....

Where
For reliable snow:
FRANCE - Chamonix, Courchevel, Les Deux Alpes (Bit of a partying place!), Val D'Isere, Val Thorens
ITALY - Cervinia (the other side of Zermatt)
AUSTRIA - Hintertux, Lech/Zurs, Obergurgl, Obertauern, Solden
SWITZERLAND - Saas-Fee, Zermatt

For Off Piste:
FRANCE - Alpe-d'Huez, Chamonix, Tignes (near Val D'Isere)
ITALY - Monterosa Ski - eg gressony
AUSTRIA - Lech Zurs, St Anton
SWITZERLAND - Davos, Klosters, Verbier

For best chance of powder
FRANCE La Grave (nr Les Deux Alpes, Alpe d'Huez), St Foy Tarentaise
ITALY - Monterosa Ski
AUSTRIA - Lech Zurs
SWITZERLAND - Andermatt

For heli skiing/cat skiing - very limited in Europe
https://www.powderhounds.com/Europe/Heli-Skiing.aspx
ITALY - Courmayer, Monterosa Ski, La Thuile
SWITZERLAND - Vebier, Zermatt

When
You should be fine from last week in Jan to middle of March. Later than that make sure you choose a higher resort. If you go to France I'd recommend that you avoid their school holidays - 4th Feb - 5th March, and UK school holiday (13th - 16th Feb).

Hope that helps!

 

[santacruz skier]

I have been to several resorts that @Cygnet mentioned. Think you would love both Zermatt , Switzerland (Cervinia Italy on other side) and Chamonix, France. I'm planning on going to Kitzbuehlel next winter (it's not known to be snow sure as altitiude is low) but supposed to be really fun place to ski. I love areas with pedestrian only villages and Zermatt is one of them. Actually Chamonix too but very spread out. Went to Chamonix two years in a row and it is a great place to ski.

 

[elemmac]

Hope that helps!

Thanks! Yes, that does help....A LOT. Gives me a lot of places to start researching.

Think you would love both Zermatt , Switzerland (Cervinia Italy on other side) and Chamonix, France.

I've wanted to go to Zermatt for a long time now, the idea of pedestrian traffic only really entices me. With that in mind, Chamonix and Zermatt were two that I was thinking about specifically to do together for this trip. How easy is it to get from one to the other? Is one easier to fly into than the other? Or could I potentially fly into an airport near Chamonix, go by train to Zermatt, and fly out from an airport near Zermatt?

You should be fine from last week in Jan to middle of March. Later than that make sure you choose a higher resort. If you go to France I'd recommend that you avoid their school holidays - 4th Feb - 5th March, and UK school holiday (13th - 16th Feb).

France gets a whole month off in the middle of winter!?!? I feel like I went to school in the wrong country! When would you recommend going to France? Seems like the vacation time is in the middle of the best skiing.

 

[santacruz skier]

Think Geneva is your best bet for either Chamonix or Zermatt. Train service is really great but sometimes you will need several trains to get from one place to the other. Have lugged skis, boots, gear bag and backpack on trains and is a bit of a hassle but part of the experience. Divas in Europe could answer some of your questions better...paging @HeidiInTheAlps , @snow addict , @Cygnet ...

FYI I have been to Chamonix twice (2 years in a row) and Zermatt once. But many of the resorts mentioned are really great as well. Did about 7 trips to Europe in the last 11-12 years to ski and just love the experience.

 

[santacruz skier]

Also, I just ordered (and received) from Amazon a book, "Where to ski and snowboard 2016" that has detailed info on mostly European resorts. Book was written in the UK. So might be worth a read.

 

[elemmac]

Have lugged skis, boots, gear bag and backpack on trains and is a bit of a hassle but part of the experience.

I've done a decent amount of train travel in Europe, just never with skis/boots/gear in tow. I'll have to debate the pros/cons of bringing skis or renting. But that will probably be a conversation for another day, once I decide where to go.

I'll definitely look into that book! Thanks for the tip. Each resort I look at online changes my mind...they're all so beautiful. La grave may have just gotten pushed up my list a few notches though.

 

[santacruz skier]

Definitely get the book.. I'm looking at La Grave and the first + is "legendary off piste mountain" and it also states suitable for experts only.... and it links to Les Deux Alpes... So many resorts.... I think you would love Chamonix, but the bases are really spread out.... IMO renting is a bit of a hassle.

 

[elemmac]

Definitely some great reviews out there about that book. Shopping online is way too easy sometimes...book purchased.

That's quite a way to start describing a mountain...might have to step up my game a bit before exploring that one. I love how so many resorts are connected to other ones though. Makes me start to think about just staying at one resort for the trip.

 

[santacruz skier]

Definitely some great reviews out there about that book. Shopping online is way too easy sometimes...book purchased.

That's quite a way to start describing a mountain...might have to step up my game a bit before exploring that one. I love how so many resorts are connected to other ones though. Makes me start to think about just staying at one resort for the trip.

Yeah, don't try to go to several resorts. For instance, if you do Zermatt you can also ski the Italian side Cervinia (not so steep but fun). Or if you do Chamonix, there are literally 5 areas (or ski stations spread out) that you can ski. Also you could ski italian side Courmayeur but you would need to get transportation there. Also the last time I skied Chamonix we did a day trip to Verbier. Now that is steep - did some famous Tortin bump run that wouldn't end. I was flailing big time. Or if you do Val d'sere, you can ski Tignes. Plenty to ski. Another area I have skied is Portes du Soleil - not known for extreme but humongous - you can't ski all the areas as is in France and Switzerland. Also skied Wengen and then skied Grindelwald. So many places. Wait until you read the book...
Let me know how you like it. Just got it a week ago and can't put it down.

 

[heather matthews]

Probably of relevance to you would be the fact that in Europe the attitude is one of self sufficiency off piste.It really is your responsibility and in somewhere like the Espace Killy(which I'm most familiar with) it's very easy to get to places that are unpatrolled and uncontrolled. Even more so in La Grave as that is all it is.As for the French school holidays they split the nation into three I think over February to reduce the loading.I was in France for Feb. this year and in a resort like Val d'Isere/Tignes then it was noticable when it was British as well as French school holidays.It all makes for busier pistes and busier lifts but if you are going backcountry it really isn't a problem.

 

[klar]

^^ the point about self sufficiency is a good one. There are generally very few zones that are controlled for avalanches and not groomed. The concept of "inbounds" does not exist in the way it does in the States. If you are interested in leaving the pistes, getting a guide might be a worthwhile option, especially in places like Chamonix, La Grave and Zermatt where there is a ton of easy access, amazing back country terrain.

edit to add: regarding heliskiing, obviously opinions on this vary but I kind of feel like if you are going to use a heli you might as well do it to get to some far away, remote mountain. pretty much all the heli landing zones in the Alps see ski touring traffic. If it were me I'd save the heli money for AK and consider doing a ski tour in the Alps.

 

[elemmac]

I was in France for Feb. this year and in a resort like Val d'Isere/Tignes then it was noticable when it was British as well as French school holidays.It all makes for busier pistes and busier lifts but if you are going backcountry it really isn't a problem.

Going into the backcountry is of interest to us, but won't be the primary focus for the majority of our trip. With that in mind, the school vacations will be something to consider timing-wise, and definitely something I need to consider. Are there certain resorts that are more prone to an influx of skiers during this time? Anyplace that is unbearable during this time? I know there are some places in the states that I wouldn't even dream about going to on a school vacation day.

If you are interested in leaving the pistes, getting a guide might be a worthwhile option, especially in places like Chamonix, La Grave and Zermatt where there is a ton of easy access, amazing back country terrain.

Thanks, this actually confirms my thoughts on going off-piste. If we end up doing anything off-piste it will be with a guide. Between not knowing the area, and not being super experienced in the backcountry, I don't think it would be smart for us to venture off on our own. There is also a good chance we'll skip anything off-piste, as it really seems like there is plenty to ski within the resorts limits. As for heli-skiing, we'd really only consider it if we got some recommendations to a "must-go" location. And from the sounds of it, it'd be better to spend our time elsewhere.

 

[heather matthews]

Going into the backcountry is of interest to us, but won't be the primary focus for the majority of our trip. With that in mind, the school vacations will be something to consider timing-wise, and definitely something I need to consider. Are there certain resorts that are more prone to an influx of skiers during this time? Anyplace that is unbearable during this time? I know there are some places in the states that I wouldn't even dream about going to on a school vacation day.



Thanks, this actually confirms my thoughts on going off-piste. If we end up doing anything off-piste it will be with a guide. Between not knowing the area, and not being super experienced in the backcountry, I don't think it would be smart for us to venture off on our own. There is also a good chance we'll skip anything off-piste, as it really seems like there is plenty to ski within the resorts limits. As for heli-skiing, we'd really only consider it if we got some recommendations to a "must-go" location. And from the sounds of it, it'd be better to spend our time elsewhere.

If you end up in Tignes then I highly recommend Kev Herbert from Evolution 2 in Tignes La Lac. They are an excellent organisation. I would avoid the ESF in general though I've heard some nice things about the school in LA lac but much less so about val claret and val disere.

 

[skibum4ever]

We have skied several times in Europe and really enjoyed Lech, Zurs, St. Anton, etc. The Arlberg region of Austria has incredible variety and is known as "the birthplace of modern skiing".

We skied there 3 times. One year the snow wasn't that great but there was still plenty to ski. One year was average, and one was enormously powdery. The ambiance is first rate. Note that this area was mentioned on several of the lists posted above by @Cygnet.

 

[snow addict]

Hi all, had a crazy month after the season, no time for Internet fun

It's not so easy to get from Chamonix to Zermatt, though if you rent a car you can drive, but it will be about 3.5 hours or more. If you want to do two resorts you can combine Chamonix and Verbier (1.5 hours drive between resorts) or Zermatt and Verbier (2.5 hours drive approximately). You can take a train but a few changes are needed whichever resorts you decide to couple up and it will take longer. Rental gear is usually good though, so you might leave yours at home and spare yourself too much luggage.

Resorts are big enough to keep you entertained for a week or more. I ski in Verbier regularly f0r the past 12 years and even that I cover more and more areas, there are still descents and variants I haven't skied yet. Verbier and Zermatt have a few ungroomed itineraries which while being marked as not controlled for avalanches (at least in Verbier) in fact are - they would be closed when too dangerous. But safe area is only 20-30 meters each side of the markers after that it's considered out of bounds. Chamonix-Argentiere has some long ungroomed from the top, but it's more limited and gets bumped up quickly. Out of the three Verbier would have the most itineraries (5 on Verbier side), plus couple dozens off-piste descents/variants (plus even more off the back side of the resort on the glacier). All lift-accessed.

But honestly for the best experience you need to go out of bounds, as this is why people head to Verbier. You can book yourself a week-long off-piste clinic with Powder Extreme Verbier (https://www.powder-extreme.com) in which case you will save on guiding prices and will be taken to really cool terrain as long as there is no glaciers. Or an off-piste clinic in Chamonix - I had one with Chamonix Experience (https://www.chamex.com), they will take you even on glaciers as clinics are led not just by instructors but by a mountain guide also and will be given training not just on avalanches but also on things like crevasse rescue. Chamonix clinics have two levels - introductory and advanced, the level of teaching/guiding is very high, but you need to be a confident black run skier and be able to keep up - if you are not used to ski long verticals (I heard that they are quite rare in the States) make sure your fitness is there - it's not about skiing fast and aggressively 100-200 meters vertical, but about skiing without stopping and not wasting time for about 500-600 vertical meters. You can't go wrong with either Verbier or Chamonix and if the dates of the clinics are right you can even do both if you go for two weeks and do both resorts - in this way in one holiday you will ski some truly breathtaking world-class terrain right from the magazine pages in two top European destination resorts. Groups are small - 4-6 people per group and pricing is good. Guides in general are expensive, so on your own you will end up sticking mostly to marked and will miss on lot of fun to be had. Don't let the teaching part put you off, it's a full on off-piste teaching without drills but with lot of useful tips even for experts, so I think you should enjoy it. To cover the same terrain just with a private guide will cost a lot more.

I cannot say much about Zermatt off-piste - when I was there itineraries were closed due to lack of snow and we stuck to groomers and a huge bump field. Groomers provide a nice and relaxing cruising at the top but steepen towards the bottom. Scenery is to die for, you can ski down to Italian side and have awesome (and cheap) lunch if the link is open (it's closed when it's too windy and the resort is high so winds are not uncommon). Some great piste skiing in Verbier too if you go over the four valleys side, steep groomers, WC standard - Swiss team trains there and WC events held in Veysonnaz before. On Verbier side it'is just one big motorway Look at all these options carefully (plus suggestions by others - lot of nice resorts), make your choice and make your bookings, they are popular resorts so accommodation can go fast if you want a cheaper option. Best time I would say towards the end of January, it's much quieter then. Weather has been all over the place so hard to say when the best snow will be, but I think towards the end of January it's fairly safe snow-wise. I wouldn't bother with heli-skiing unless you go later in the season, like in March. Heli-skiing is different in Europe, you only get one drop off, then the guide takes you down to some village from where you take the taxi back to resort. No heli-skiing in France at all, but if you get heli in Italy they can drop you off on French side.

Zermatt is a little closer to Zurich then to Geneva, for Verbier and Chamonix you need to arrive to Geneva. Both airports are international hubs you can get to easily from the States. Transfer to Chamonix is by bus (just over an hour), to Verbier and Zermatt is by train. Train station is at the airport both in Geneva and Zurich, so it's pretty straightforward. All three resorts are lively. I know you are going skiing and don't care about partying, but if weather sucks it's better to be in a lively place then in a family resort that goes dead after 8 pm. Chamonix is a proper town, connected to a few ski areas, only one are is right in town, you need a bus for the rest, about 20 minutes. Only two areas are linked by slopes/lifts, but since it's only two of you going that shouldn't be a problem. With a bigger group especially if levels are very different it can be a real pain and not recommended.

France doesn't get the whole month off of school breaks They only have a week, but it varies from one region to another, plus add other European countries who also have school breaks spread over the same month, and you get a full month of madness better to be avoided. I think on snowheads they run a thread every year on various European school holidays with dates, if you need them for your planning.

Good luck with choosing and planning! The choice is really big and there are other nice resorts but these three are the ones I am familiar with.

 

[SnowSeeker]

Avoiding the half term holidays is important if you want short lift lines. There are a few websites to map this out by country. Here are two: https://www.schoolholidayseurope.eu, https://www.holidays-europe.com
Europeans seem to have distinct migratory ski patterns so it's not a linear thing to research. Brits go to France. Dutch seem to prefer Switzerland. Belgians go to Austria. French stick to France. This is based entirely on non scientific surveillance of the many families in my kids' international school!

A few other things to consider:

1) Will there be snow: I see you are from NH so you are used to having early snow, except last winter...but hopefully that was an anomaly. The season starts later in some areas over here. If you go in early January, perhaps stick with high altitude areas to guarantee snow in case it's a slow start to the year. We were thinking of the Dolomites last winter, but they didn't get snow until very late so it was too risky for early February.

2) How deep is your wallet: Switzerland and France are very expensive. Italy is a lot less and Austria is a bit less too. 2,50 euro coffee in Italy vs 7 euro coffee in France. Meals really add up over 2 weeks and you should really enjoy the food experience while you are in Europe.

3) The big name ski areas get very crowded: My Dutch and Belgian friends are constantly suggesting less known areas to avoid crowds (for example, the Aosta area of Italy and various places in Austria, which most Americans have never heard of).

4) Ski in/ski out is not common: make sure you understand the location of your accomodation and how you will get to the slopes.

We went to Cervinia last February during their busiest week (half term holidays for various countries) and the longest line we waited in was less than 5 minutes. Italy doesn't have a February break, which reduces crowds. Carnival weekend is busy, but that's only two days long in Feb. Food is excellent and prices are very reasonable. If the pass is open, you can ski over to Zermatt for more difficult terrain. The pass was only open for two days that week due to heavy snow, but it closed half day and we didn't have time to get out and back before ski school let out (it's a 5 hour taxi if you get stuck on the wrong side). It's mostly uncrowded, long cruisers, but the Italian ski culture is great and every day was a huge powder day. You can fly into Turin and take a taxi for 100 euro to Cervinia or a bus for less. We met several people who skied over from Zermatt and they were very critical of the long lift lines, crowded pistes and high prices for food. But everyone loves the village in Zermatt and terrain is more difficult and varied over there. Zurich is the closest big airport to Zermatt, btw. Cervinia's village is okay but not the same charm as you find in Switzerland. We stayed in one of the few ski in/out hotels and we had to take a snow mobile up and back unless we wanted to hike up a bit of the piste. It was a great experience in every way.

In contrast, we went to Tignes (France) for Easter break, which is a slower time than half term. It was horribly crowded on the slopes and downright unpleasant to ski at times. It's also a lot more expensive for food, but we stayed in a great catered chalet with a fantastic chef so we only ate lunch out. Many of the large French resorts are ugly and lacking in charm (Chamonix does not fall into this category). France has a lot of terrain (we just scratched the surface of Espace Killy after 7 days) and a lot of off piste. It may be a question of whether it's just terrain you are going for (in which case go to Whistler or Big Sky instead ) Or do you want to also experience some culture (in which case, avoid the large purpose built French resorts).

Sorry for the long post. I'm sure the people who have lived over here longer than I have will have more information. But, I thought I would share the two distinct experiences we had this year to illustrate some of the differences in areas. I am a life long New England skier and I find the ski holiday planning to be excruciating here because of the many choices. You are right to start researching early. Next year, we are focused on Austria or Italy but we need to sneak Switzerland in there too. Good luck!

 

[elemmac]

Oh my goodness, SOOO much good information! Thank you everyone! I just need to really look through everything with a fine tooth comb and explore all of these options...they all sound so good.

Wait until you read the book...
Let me know how you like it. Just got it a week ago and can't put it down.

It came in the mail yesterday...and you're right! So much good information from the resorts' descriptions, travel, costs, terrain, everything! I really like how they give you "short lists" based on your primary interests. I have a feeling this book is going to get a lot of use from me. Thank you so much for that suggestion!

 

[elemmac]

@snow addict - Verbier sounds like a place my SO and I would REALLY enjoy. I've seen a lot of mountain bike videos from there popping up recently, but didn't give it a ton of thought for skiing. Sounds like it's a place that can pretty much guarantee snow, as well as a place that I can really push my limits of skiing. Fantastic recommendation on the off-piste clinics, I checked out their website, and talked to my SO about it. He LOVES the idea! I thought he would be a but off-put from the teaching side of it...but not all! If we end up in Zermatt, do you know of any similar clinics/camps there?

I know you are going skiing and don't care about partying, but if weather sucks it's better to be in a lively place then in a family resort that goes dead after 8 pm.

This is a really good point...who knows what the weather's going to be. It'll definitely be something I'll be taking into consideration.

 

[elemmac]

@SnowSeeker - Thanks for the websites on the school breaks, and your take on who goes where...sometimes non-scientific observations are the best kind.

I'll be researching more into Austria...I've been focusing a lot of Switzerland and France. I've been seeing a common theme that France and Switzerland are the most expensive (pretty sure the Swiss Franc is doing pretty well? So the exchange rates won't help me much on top of the already expensive pricing).
↑
It may be a question of whether it's just terrain you are going for (in which case go to Whistler or Big Sky instead ) Or do you want to also experience some culture (in which case, avoid the large purpose built French resorts).

I'm definitely going for the culture/scenery as well, something you don't get in the States. I lived in Hungary for 4+ months in 2007 and was fortunate enough to spend a long weekend skiing in Austria, and it was an amazing trip. I traveled a lot in the time I lived there, and our ski trip was definitely at the top of the list of places I went. My SO isn't much of a traveler, has only been to Europe as family vacation when he was young, but I know he would absolutely LOVE the skiing, the scenery, everything about the ski villages, and "classic" Swiss or Austrian culture.