Column on bathing suit contests in pageants and other scholarship events

[pinto]

Thought this touched on a few topics we have discussed ...


What’s the intent of Strawberry Days fashion show?

This is not a column about bikinis.

Yes, they sparked this line of thinking. But frankly, I don't care what a bunch of teen girls wear. I'm not them. I'm not their parents.

It's not the appearance of a bikini that's the problem; it's participation in a culture that, from a young age, implies a woman's worth is tied to her appearance.

This month's Miss Strawberry Days scholarship program awarded $8,000, distributed among four participants. It also included a fashion show component in which the young women modeled clothing and swimwear. The event included audience votes, which factored into the judges' final scores.

We simply don't ask young men to compete for scholarships in the same way. How is a woman to believe her body doesn't dictate her worth after it garners her audience votes?

The rest of the article is here.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Huh.

The author seems to think there's a bright line between formal dresses and swimwear. I'll admit I've always found beauty pageants baffling, so I'm not sure I understand any of it. Do the pageants give at least lip service, or perhaps even serious intent, to prizing things other than beauty? Is the formal wear intended to show something else, like posture?

I'm having this weird line of thought - if a young woman can use her physical assets to help her go to college so that she can one day use her other assets, is that wrong? Is it wrong for a college student to strip or cam so that she can finish her degree? I don't have a problem with the stripping or camming, so I'm not sure I have a leg to stand on even if I do find the pageant thing icky.

 

[Christy]

I didn't even know that they still did swimsuit contests. I thought that went away when they started emphasizing the scholarship aspect, but clearly this is not my world.

I can see where you are going with the difference between a college student stripping and this, but I do see a difference. The difference between 16 and 18 may not technically be much but it's significant, to me--an 18 y.o. college student deciding to make money off horny men vs a younger teen trying to get scholarship money by having grown men rank her looks in a swimsuit do seem like different things. Maybe they are just different points on the same spectrum but different points nonetheless.

 

[Skier31]

I do not believe formal wear or swimsuits should be a factor in determining who gets a scholarship.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I can see where you are going with the difference between a college student stripping and this, but I do see a difference. The difference between 16 and 18 may not technically be much but it's significant, to me--an 18 y.o. college student deciding to make money off horny men vs a younger teen trying to get scholarship money by having grown men rank her looks in a swimsuit do seem like different things. Maybe they are just different points on the same spectrum but different points nonetheless.

That's a good point. I hadn't actually thought of the age difference (duh! can't see how I missed this)

 

[MissySki]

A little off topic, but there was a great snippet article I read yesterday on Facebook (which I can't locate at the moment of course) that depicted men's tweets on cover issues that were posted for this year's ESPN the body issue. One picture was a nude football player in motion holding a football, not showing the "important stuff" as everything was strategically hidden based on the body position. One picture was a female athlete, also nude and covering what needed to be. It's not a new concept, as it's been going on for some years, athletes of both sexes posed naked in their sport.. The startling thing to me was the reaction men and only men had to the two separate pictures of athletes. They were disgusted and derogatory about the male athlete's picture, it made them sick, they didn't want to see that, the world was coming to an end. Yet they were perfectly fine with the female pictures. Women on the other hand had no problem with either image. The take away was that men are conditioned to feel defensive and insecure in some way about themselves that they take offense from the male image, yet women have been conditioned to find no issue with the female athlete being depicted in this way because we are so used to seeing very scantily clad or nude women on magazines and in the media, we are conditioned to think it's normal when a women is depicted this way and in many cases that her worth is tied to her body and her body fair game for public consumption. I'm probably not doing the issue justice with my regurgitation, but I found the dicotomy quite fascinating.

Personally I thought all of the images were really cool, male and female, and was mostly in awe at how fine tuned and athletic their bodies were. I didn't find either side sexualized, and always think they do a pretty cool job of not making it super awkward or creepy even though some might find the concept creepy in general regardless.

 

[altagirl]

Personally I don't support beauty pageants. I think it's emphasizing all the wrong things and it's a bad idea in general. BUT - you can't really control what other people choose to do - as adults or what they think is appropriate for their children. I mean, there are all kinds of groups and activities that offer scholarships and I'm sure I can find plenty of others that I find inappropriate or offensive if I look.

I guess to me - the question would be "Where is this scholarship money coming from?". I mean - if it were like government/public funds paying for it - yes, totally inappropriate and something should be done. If it's ticket sales or sponsors? Well, if you don't like it, don't enter and don't buy a ticket, or don't support the sponsors to take it to the next level. Apply for scholarships based on academic performance or athletic performance or one of your interests or any of the other multitude of opportunities out there. (I'm totally fine with bringing attention to the inappropriateness of it, but I think it's one of those things where it will only ever change if someday this finally becomes unacceptable to the public in general. I guess I feel like the fight is to change hearts and minds, and other than that, there isn't much that's going to be done about it.)

 

[bounceswoosh]

The take away was that men are conditioned to feel defensive and insecure in some way about themselves that they take offense from the male image

Er, maybe, but I think it's pretty simple: men are conditioned to be terrified of being perceived as homosexual. Homosexual = feminine = the worst thing a man could possibly be. So when they see a naked man, they absolutely must proclaim at top of voice how disgusting it is. This proves their hyper-masculinity and the fact that they are definitely, absolutely, in no way gay, which would be the WORST.

I agree it's insecurity. I also think in some cases, the lady - er, gentleman - doth protest too much.

 

[MissySki]

Er, maybe, but I think it's pretty simple: men are conditioned to be terrified of being perceived as homosexual. Homosexual = feminine = the worst thing a man could possibly be. So when they see a naked man, they absolutely must proclaim at top of voice how disgusting it is. This proves their hyper-masculinity and the fact that they are definitely, absolutely, in no way gay, which would be the WORST.

I agree it's insecurity. I also think in some cases, the lady - er, gentleman - doth protest too much.

Good point, and definitely agree. Some men did also post comments implying that the male athlete must be gay for posing nude to begin with. Considering they have been doing this issue since like 2009, and everything else in the world in 2017, you'd think it wouldn't cause such a stir at this point.

 

[pinto]

"We simply don't ask young men to compete for scholarships in the same way. How is a woman to believe her body doesn't dictate her worth after it garners her audience votes?"

That was the clincher for me.

 

[newboots]

I find the whole concept repellent, really.

"We simply don't ask young men to compete for scholarships in the same way. How is a woman to believe her body doesn't dictate her worth after it garners her audience votes?"

That was the clincher for me.

Yes. This. What she believes about her worth, and what is reinforced for all of us about our worth as women.

On the other hand, the ESPN body issue sounds pretty great. I wish we could all appreciate the beauty of the human body in a non-exploitative way. Too bad it freaked out all the men.

 

[Obrules15]

Er, maybe, but I think it's pretty simple: men are conditioned to be terrified of being perceived as homosexual. Homosexual = feminine = the worst thing a man could possibly be. So when they see a naked man, they absolutely must proclaim at top of voice how disgusting it is. This proves their hyper-masculinity and the fact that they are definitely, absolutely, in no way gay, which would be the WORST.

I agree it's insecurity. I also think in some cases, the lady - er, gentleman - doth protest too much.

I've been reading about mirror neurons lately and have seen some interesting discussions related to their role in homophobia.

To start the mirror neuron system is thought to be related to empathy and learning. They are neurons that light up in your motor cortex when you watch someone else do something. They light up in the same fashion that your motor neurons light up when you do that same thing.

If you see someone drink a glass of water, your drinking a glass of water neurons fire off. People who are very empathic may be so because when they see someone in emotional pain their emotional pain mirror neurons fire off, so they actually feel that feeling. It's being studied in sports (rapid skill acquisition), & autism among other things.

So some of the thought with homophobia is that if in our minds we are experiencing what others are doing/feeling it becomes a lot harder to ignore. It also explains the "as long as I don't have to see it," type of pseudo-tolerance.

If you look at it like that, it also brings up the issue of how much our culture sexualizes things that shouldn't be sexual. The naked body has always been the focus of art because of the beauty of it's function. We have trouble with breastfeeding as a culture despite it's many benefits because it clashes with our view of breasts as sexual organs.

Basically if you believe any nakedness is sexual and everything you experience is experienced as if you are actually doing it or feeling that way, of course men wouldn't be able to cope with images of male nudity in any context. Women have grown up with a barrage of images etc. related to our sexualization from the heterosexual male perspective so of course we're not bothered the same way on a visceral level even if we have intellectual issues with it.

 

[Obrules15]

"We simply don't ask young men to compete for scholarships in the same way. How is a woman to believe her body doesn't dictate her worth after it garners her audience votes?"

Yes. This. What she believes about her worth, and what is reinforced for all of us about our worth as women.

But isn't this really just a chicken vs. egg issue. Unfortunately in this world our value and worth ARE still being defined and rewarded by those superficial measures. Even when people say all the right things you still see evidence that that value system persists. Women who excel academically don't have the same choices of partners as someone who excels aesthetically.

When you start looking worldwide it gets even messier. I think just saying it isn't so is never going to fix the problem, and pageants are just a symptom.

 

[Skier31]

But isn't this really just a chicken vs. egg issue. Unfortunately in this world our value and worth ARE still being defined and rewarded by those superficial measures. Even when people say all the right things you still see evidence that that value system persists. Women who excel academically don't have the same choices of partners as someone who excels aesthetically.

When you start looking worldwide it gets even messier. I think just saying it isn't so is never going to fix the problem, and pageants are just a symptom.

I agree. We can't fix everything but we can change some things and we must start somewhere.

 

[Obrules15]

I agree. We can't fix everything but we can change some things and we must start somewhere.

Have you seen the carnival game where multiple heads keep popping out of different holes and you keep smashing them down when another pops up from a different hole and then the original is back. You've been smashing away and accomplished nothing.

I feel like pageants are one of those heads we keep smashing at but we've never managed to address the root of the problem. Until we do, are we really ever going to get anywhere?

Sorry, I'm a little morbid today. I was reading about the book "A Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood and how that society was not science fiction but a projection of some of the prevailing societal trends of 1985. Really, many of those trends have gotten stronger recently........It's not that far fetched.

 

[mustski]

I don't know, but as long as sizeable (and they are generous) scholarships are offered for beauty, beautiful young women are going to compete for them. If I had a knockout daughter who was interested, I would say go for it. I would never raise a child to believe that was important, but I wouldn't stop her either. On the record, as a middle school theater teacher, I receive all the pageant stuff - including Miss Teen California. I trash them. They do not get handed out in my class. A parent once asked me why and I said it was unfair to the boys. They just don't get those opportunities
Sadly, she took me seriously.

 

[Skier31]

Have you seen the carnival game where multiple heads keep popping out of different holes and you keep smashing them down when another pops up from a different hole and then the original is back. You've been smashing away and accomplished nothing.

I feel like pageants are one of those heads we keep smashing at but we've never managed to address the root of the problem. Until we do, are we really ever going to get anywhere?

Sorry, I'm a little morbid today. I was reading about the book "A Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood and how that society was not science fiction but a projection of some of the prevailing societal trends of 1985. Really, many of those trends have gotten stronger recently........It's not that far fetched.

I believe that you have to take small steps to accomplish big things. If people do not participate, there would be no reason to have them.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Hate the game, not the player?

Did Margaret Mead actually say the following? The internet says she did: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

 

[altagirl]

I believe that you have to take small steps to accomplish big things. If people do not participate, there would be no reason to have them.

Agreed. If you tried to actively ban such things, there would be all sorts of backlash - things like Miss America pageants are very traditional (and always include scholarships, I believe) and I'm sure you'd get a lot of people fired up. But if you can educate young women to not want to compete in something where their bodies are being judged for money - that would be a real win.

And I do get that there are plenty of people who like an excuse to get all dressed up, and there's nothing wrong with that - there is certainly an art to makeup and all of that. Maybe you don't have any way to justify spending a bunch of time and money on the outfit and hair and makeup and everything without the lure of scholarship money and cash prizes and whatnot. It makes me wonder if there are other ways to get the young women attracted to pageants into something similar but less objectifying - theatre, dance, even the cosplay competitions that I've done in the last year or two (you're all dressed up and on stage, but age, body type, gender, etc. are not a factor - you're judged on creativity and skill in what you made, not on looking like a Barbie, and I like that the winners are often plus sized, or in gender-bent costumes not meant to look "hot", etc.) Just brainstorming, I guess!

 

[newboots]

@altagirl Cosplay competitions! Gender-bent costumes in Utah! This is great news.