Bump Skis (Kinda Sorta)

[santacruz skier]

Check out the Santa Ana...super light, but still a super stable, fun all-mountain ski. Does well everywhere on the mountain, grips well on groomers, does well in powder, with being nimble enough for bumps and trees. Long thread about it here...

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/nordica-santa-ana.20011/

I want to try the Santa Ana.... but isn't it a better ski for western conditions?

 

[bounceswoosh]

I want to try the Santa Ana.... but isn't it a better ski for western conditions?

Well, @W8N2SKI was asking about a ski for her trips out west ...

 

[W8N2SKI]

Santa Ana is now on the demo list. Plus, it has such a cool name.

 

[elemmac]

I want to try the Santa Ana.... but isn't it a better ski for western conditions?

That recommendation was in response to wanting a ski for out west. But...I skied them the majority of my ski days last year on the east coast. Would an east coast carver been the "proper ski"? Probably, most days. Did I have fun skiing them everyday I had them on my feet? You bet I did. They're extremely versatile, which is why I think they're a great match for people on the east looking for a wider, soft snow ski.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I was at Killington on my last ski day of the season in April (sniff, sniff), conditions were very spring and very messy, clumpy and coverage was um sparse. This girl skied towards me on some Santa Anas. She was bouncing and bopping in happiness smiling from ear to ear. She said hello as she passed me. Those Santa Ana's also seemed to rock in the spring slush gunk as well.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I was at Killington on my last ski day of the season in April (sniff, sniff), conditions were very spring and very messy, clumpy and coverage was um sparse. This girl skied towards me on some Santa Anas. She was bouncing and bopping in happiness smiling from ear to ear. She said hello as she passed me. Those Santa Ana's also seemed to rock in the spring slush gunk as well.

Also in spring morning firm chunks. They gave me such confidence - felt like the broken-up crust I was skiing through wasn't even there.

 

[nopoleskier]

So many choices so many skis and everyone skis differently and has different likes and different styles of skiing and ability.


I'd suggest on first trip West just demo? Western Ski shops seem to be dedicated to fatties and doubtful you'd find anything under 85 cm under foot. Plus less baggage & Fees! And you'll get to try several types on the same snow conditions something I find paramount to buying skis.. to try a pair in the east to me just can't compare to jumping into over a foot of beautiful powder. Eastern powder lasts the morning then tends to turn to 'gack' and rare to get a foot!

I've been bringing 2 pair of skis west w/me Front side narrow waist carvers and a pair of fatties. Sadly for several trips I only used my Eastern front siders. I never took my 'powder' skis out of the locker! Finally Last winter we hit the jackpot w/TONS of snow at Alta and we followed the storm to Aspen..

I have Black Pearls which I love in Eastern slush and powder up to 6-8". They don't have enough 'beef' to take into heavier/deeper snow, found that out when it snowed about 18" at Alta and it kept snowing...skiing it became a lot of work.. Now I have Elysians a stiffer/longer ski w/more beef (than BP's) perfect to cruise thru 12"+ and allow me to play in the bumps and trees, and these are skis another diva on here did not like.
I Recommend not to choose a ski based on ski magazine or diva reviews unless you have skied w/the poster and ski at same level/style they do!

I am so amazed at how technology has changed skis. I still think it will always be the skier and their ability not the ski. yes skis can make skiing easier or tougher if on the wrong ski! Buying an expert ski doesn't make one an expert! Because of all the designs, I would never buy a ski without a good demo on the conditions that the ski would be primarily skied.

I Just watched this video shared on this thread..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzQKDslU3Bw[/QUOTE]
I love this video! Glen w/hair!! And a riot seeing some skiing on my old straight skis! I Can't believe I grew up on 210cm and did do bumps on them!! Now I'm on 159-170cms YEAH To Technology!! IMHO.. we're so lucky to have so many choices! here's to a snowy winter east, west and in between!

I hope you demo demo demo and find the perfect ski for your western trips.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I Recommend not to choose a ski based on ski magazine or diva reviews unless you have skied w/the poster and ski at same level/style they do!

Excellent point. Worth quoting for emphasis.

 

[Jilly]

Well yes, our Mantra is demo, demo and demo again. Then buy the one that makes you smile!!

 

[santacruz skier]

Excellent point. Worth quoting for emphasis.

Exactly what I was thinking. I so agree with @nopoleskier .

 

[santacruz skier]

Was just thinking that I demoed 2 years in a row the Samba and most divas did not like them. I bought them and think they're a blast and just assume we're all different and like different skis and have different abilities and are different sizes and shapes. So I do read reviews but keep in mind that I need to check out for myself. I would never buy a ski based on ski mag reviews or any other review . Definitely would need to check out for myself. The Samba is a perfect example. Also the Saffron 7 which may divas did not like either.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Or, if you have the budget or are great at finding deals, you can just buy something, see if you like it, and sell it if you don't ...

Just don't be like me and buy high, and then when you sell them, you can't bear to cut the prices down to what an actual real human being would be willing to pay for a pair of used skis, no matter how great.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Excellent point. Worth quoting for emphasis.

Also worthy to note if you have skied with the poster on multiple days and occasions or if you have just skied with them once cause everyone had bad days or other factors that tie into them having a bad day. Also a ski like the kenja can have a variety of levels ski it so the persons level might not be on par with yours but the ski can still work for the both of you.

At the end of the day whether it's a ski magazine review or the opinion of an individual skier, everyone is entitled to their opinion about what they like and don't like in a pair of skis and are entitled to say so.

The most important thing is to demo because the person ultimately responsible for the ski purchase is the buyer.

 

[santacruz skier]

@surfsnowgirl has a point about the Kenja. Supposedly is an advanced ski but really at Northstar only see intermediate types skiing it. That being said, I do have an older Kenja that I demoed in 2011 and purchased. I like to read what others like but have no idea what kind of skier they are and even if they are similar in skills to me, they may not be 5 '1 and 102 lbs and 60+....

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

I think reviews are more useful to me when they are descriptive of what the skis like to do and don't like to do, as opposed to whether the reviewer liked them or whether the skis worked well for the reviewer. That someone who's just like me liked them does not mean I will like them. So the exact skill of the reviewer as such is less important to me than the reviewer's ability to characterize the skis (although obviously some skill level is needed to discern certain characteristics). Recent-ish reviews and comments from @volklgirl, @surfsnowgirl, and @pinto stand out to me as good examples of this (there are many others, of course!), and using @volklgirl's comprehensive scoring system helps promote this.

For instance, I demoed the Kenjas around the time when I thought of myself as an upper-intermediate, and I could tell that they wanted to charge, and were intolerant of back-seating and other technical flaws. I demoed the Lux 88s around the same time, and they were much more versatile and forgiving, but chattered as soon as the speed picked up, and were mushy on crud. Theses are things that are repeatedly mentioned in reviews, so I know it wasn't just that Kenjas were above my skill level or that the Lux 88 were below my skill level. They have personalities. In the end, I "liked" the Lux 88s more and skied/looked better with them, but the Kenjas would have been a better choice for my growth path, and I ended up with Temptation 88s, which are more like Kenjas, just a bit more forgiving.

I can similarly say with confidence that moguls are not a natural habitat for Temptation 88s, and that the T88s like to nose-dive into deep powder, although my skills are nowhere near expert in these situations; in fact, they work well enough for me in those situations, but they will always be best at GS turns on smooth groomers no matter how much more I improve. Now, Experience 74s, which I have tried as rentals, were better at short-radius turns, and were easier to un-edge than the T88s and Kenjas, who like to bite into the snow and not let go; the trade-off is that they are more skittish on ice and unwieldy on powder. Now, the E74s liked to go over crud, as opposed to T88s and Kenjas' preference for cutting through crud, which likely parallel their mogul behavior. So, two people at the same skill level might have different preferences on these characteristics.

I hope this makes sense... too late in the night.

(A broken record possibly worth mentioning here is to demo and purchase boots before demoing skis. A big part of my difficulty with the Kenjas were the rental boots that were too stiff and upright for me.)

 

[W8N2SKI]

This has been such a helpful discussion for me. I’m now beginning to formulate my demo plan for the season. My western plan will be the toughest unless we get an early season heavy snowfall here in the mid-Atlantic (hope springs eternal) and my local shop actually carries my demo choices. If we don’t get the big weather, unless I can finagle a long weekend in Utah in December (never say never), I may have to wait until my Taos trip in January.

Here’s where I need some advice. I’m doing the Taos ski week which involves lessons each morning. I’m guessing that I won’t want to be demoing a new ski each day in the lesson. I’m afraid I’d confuse my progress or lack thereof with the difference in the skis. In addition, we’ll be doing different drills, etc. each day so I won’t necessarily be doing the same type of skiing (tho I do hope to focus on bumps), and won’t be able to fairly evaluate the skis on that basis. Of course, conditions are rarely identical from day to day, but I would like to do as close a comparison as possible in similar conditions/terrain. Plus, I don't want to screw up an otherwise good lesson if I have a demo that is wrong for me or that I just don't like. Or perhaps I’m over-thinking this?? This is where I’d love some feedback from youz guyz.

The other option would be to do the morning lessons on the same ski and demo in the afternoons. That way, each afternoon I can (hopefully) get 2 to 4 runs in on at least 2 skis in varied terrain under the same conditions.

My list is growing:

Great Joy
Santa Ana
Chams
Black Pearl
Kenja (so much has been written about this ski that I’ll feel cheated if I don’t at least try it).
Mystery Boards -- I’m hoping that my instructor(s) will suggest some skis to try out.

I'd like an all-mountain ski, keeping in mind that my goals this year, in order of priority, are bumps, powder, crud.

Assuming that there is some legitimacy to ability “levels,” I’ve asked a couple of peeps that I’ve skied with where they’d place me. The general consensus is a solid “7.” My instructor from Taos last year (we’re FB Friends) thinks that my lack of mogul skills is what is holding me back from reaching Level 8. That said, the Taos ski school is a bit unconventional, describing its teaching methods as an “amalgam of French, Austrian, American and Swiss systems adapted to the area's special terrain and snow conditions.” So they don’t really rely on the number system the way some other programs do.

At any rate, short of having us all fly down to Chile or New Zealand for a couple of turns, that is about the best skill assessment I can muster at this point.

Also, since @Fluffy Kitty brought up boots in one of the most recent posts, I’m skiing in the Lange XT90 (narrow). I bought them last year to replace my old Langes that I loved for 10 years. I can’t recall the flex on my old boots, but they were the ubiquitous “blue Lange” race boot. Adjusting to the softer flex was not an issue after the first day and I’ve now transferred my affection to my new XT’s.

 

[SallyCat]

@W8N2SKI , quick question for you about the Lange's: do you find that the stiffness/flex varies with the temperature?
I bought the RS 110s this past April, after the ski season ended. I find the flex to be softer than I expected for a 110, but I'm told they stiffen up in the cold. I'm curious about yor experience with them. Also, are they warm enough?

(I'm also told "Lange's don't leak the way they used to" and I certainly hope that's true!)

 

[W8N2SKI]

@W8N2SKI , quick question for you about the Lange's: do you find that the stiffness/flex varies with the temperature?
I bought the RS 110s this past April, after the ski season ended. I find the flex to be softer than I expected for a 110, but I'm told they stiffen up in the cold. I'm curious about yor experience with them. Also, are they warm enough?

(I'm also told "Lange's don't leak the way they used to" and I certainly hope that's true!)

I honestly can't say that I noticed any stiffening in colder temps, @SallyCat. That said, we had fairly mild temps last season with only one or two exceptions (low single digits). At that point, I was concerned about keeping my face and hands warm and I really wasn't paying attention to my boots - largely b/c my feet stayed warm, which answers one of your other questions.

I would think that a drastic change in temperature will affect any boot (and anything else made largely of plastic), but I'm far from being a materials engineer. All I can say is that I was happy with them throughout the season in all temps.

I never had a leakage issue in my old Lange's. The same holds true with these. Lange also used to be infamous for making a very effective but uncomfortable boot. This is something else I've never experienced. The most uncomfortable boot I've ever skied in was a Technica, and by comparison my Lange's are like bedroom slippers.

My biggest issue w/boots is my narrow foot, VERY narrow heel, and 16+ inch calves. But the Lange's work. I do have a custom footbed, which helps, but on the whole the Lange's fit me out of the box which is VERY rare (e.g., all my riding boots have to be custom made). I bought them through a well-respected bootfitter in Park City. I wasn't going to take any chances.

 

[marzNC]

Here’s where I need some advice. I’m doing the Taos ski week which involves lessons each morning. I’m guessing that I won’t want to be demoing a new ski each day in the lesson. I’m afraid I’d confuse my progress or lack thereof with the difference in the skis. In addition, we’ll be doing different drills, etc. each day so I won’t necessarily be doing the same type of skiing (tho I do hope to focus on bumps), and won’t be able to fairly evaluate the skis on that basis. Of course, conditions are rarely identical from day to day, but I would like to do as close a comparison as possible in similar conditions/terrain. Plus, I don't want to screw up an otherwise good lesson if I have a demo that is wrong for me or that I just don't like. Or perhaps I’m over-thinking this?? This is where I’d love some feedback from youz guyz.

The other option would be to do the morning lessons on the same ski and demo in the afternoons. That way, each afternoon I can (hopefully) get 2 to 4 runs in on at least 2 skis in varied terrain under the same conditions.

Do you get to ski at all before starting the Taos Ski Week? Or does it start the first morning?

I've skied demo skis twice during a lesson. Most recently was at Mnut for a Silver Clinic. I used the Rossi Temptation 84 at 154cm, which I already knew that I liked. Note that I did not take the Absolut Joy at 153cm because I had a sense that it was too long. Ultimately bought the Absolut Joy at 148cm during the summer sales. Note that I'm not suggesting these skis for you, just giving my experience of making use of a demo day.

During the first multi-day clinic I ever did (Diva Week 2010, 3-days, mornings only), NASTC provided demo skis for me. I'd communicated with them beforehand to make sure they had something that was likely to work, meaning the right length. I didn't own all-mountain skis back then. Was probably Level 6 even though I was in an advanced group for the clinic. I ended up liking those Rossi skis (Attraxion 8, 127-75-108, 154cm) so much that I bought a pair during the summer. Used them at Mnut and out west until I bought the BPs.

My guess is that if you demo a lot during the Mnut demo weekend in early Jan, you may be able to get some good advice from Don about what to demo at Taos. While he mostly brings skis that are more appropriate for Mid-Atlantic skiing, he has plenty of experience advising people who take trips out west regularly. I've been to the Freestyle shop in Charlottesville. A lot of what they sell only makes sense for serious skiers who head to big mountains as much as they can.

 

[SallyCat]

Great to hear!
I have narrow but very long feet, so I almost always have to wear men's athletic shoes, boots, etc. I love that Lange has the narrow option. It was clear as soon as I buckled into them that they were the boot for me. I just had a custom footbrd made as well. Now to get through the next four months until ski season....